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Claim Access
Modern Day Miner
post Mar 25 2014, 10:35 AM
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I was wondering about access to a certain claim. There is a closed forest service road that goes through private property. Do I have a right to use this road/trail to access my claims.
Or is this something that would require me getting private property owners permission to go through his land to get to my claims?

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swizz
post Mar 25 2014, 11:12 AM
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Hi Chad,
Yes, you have rights to use a Forest Service Road for access to your claim. If the USFS road goes through private property then stay on the road when you are using it.
If the road is gated with a lock... you'll need to contact the regional USFS office. You can either obtain a key for their lock... or they will let you daisy chain one of your own locks to it.
You don't need property owner's permission if you are not stepping on their property. FS roads are not private property.


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Modern Day Miner
post Mar 25 2014, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Mar 25 2014, 01:12 PM) *
Hi Chad,
Yes, you have rights to use a Forest Service Road for access to your claim. If the USFS road goes through private property then stay on the road when you are using it.
If the road is gated with a lock... you'll need to contact the regional USFS office. You can either obtain a key for their lock... or they will let you daisy chain one of your own locks to it.
You don't need property owner's permission if you are not stepping on their property. FS roads are not private property.


Hey Chris

What if the road is closed and has been for some time.
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Crusty
post Mar 25 2014, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Modern Day Miner @ Mar 25 2014, 02:33 PM) *
Hey Chris

What if the road is closed and has been for some time.


I am assuming by "closed" you don't mean a locked gate, since you're still asking after the above suggestion. Is it no longer an active road?


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swizz
post Mar 25 2014, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Modern Day Miner @ Mar 25 2014, 01:33 PM) *
Hey Chris

What if the road is closed and has been for some time.

It shouldn't matter as long as it is a US Forest Road. A number of Forest and BLM Roads have been "closed" in recent years for various reasons. "Closed" normally pertains to vehicular access for recreational vehicular travel. Your activities are not recreational, you are mining, huge difference. On my claims the BLM had "closed" and gated a couple of their roads prior to my claim ownership. I visited the regional BLM office and the next day had my own locks daisy-chained to the gates as per my mining rights and they were very cooperative. Forest roads fall into the same category in terms mining rights.


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Modern Day Miner
post Mar 25 2014, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Mar 25 2014, 05:09 PM) *
It shouldn't matter as long as it is a US Forest Road. A number of Forest and BLM Roads have been "closed" in recent years for various reasons. "Closed" normally pertains to vehicular access for recreational vehicular travel. Your activities are not recreational, you are mining, huge difference. On my claims the BLM had "closed" and gated a couple of their roads prior to my claim ownership. I visited the regional BLM office and the next day had my own locks daisy-chained to the gates as per my mining rights and they were very cooperative. Forest roads fall into the same category in terms mining rights.


I did talk with the local forest service office. They said that I could drive as far as I could on the road and that I would have to hike the rest of the way in. They said that the road in question really isn't a road anymore. So we will have to see how far I can get. I don't think it will be that long of a hike.

Thanks for the input Chris.
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swizz
post Mar 26 2014, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE (Modern Day Miner @ Mar 25 2014, 04:49 PM) *
They said that I could drive as far as I could on the road and that I would have to hike the rest of the way in. They said that the road in question really isn't a road anymore.


Sounds like they're feeding you a load of bs to me... and possibly pandering to the property owner who likely wants nobody on that "closed" road. That FS road still belongs to We The People unless the Dept Of Interior sold it. Use it. If that property owner wanted to own the FS road that runs through his property he'd have to purchase it from We The People. His property value would likely increase if that deal went through.... and he knows it. He bought land with a FS road going through it and knew damn well when the land was purchased. Maybe he got a better deal because of this. Probably tickled that they closed it to recreational travel/use. Mining rights and claim ownership rights trump FS road closures. They cannot legally deny you FS road vehicular access to your claims if that FS road truly exists. That is your road, bring it back to life. Gated or not, it's your right to use and maintain strictly for mining purposes.
My gated "closed" roads were also impassible due to trees they had felled across it and many blow-downs that they hadn't cleared over the years (on purpose, I'm sure).
A couple of days with the chainsaw and dragging trees with the Jeep is all it took. Now those gated "closed" roads are open to me ( + mining personnel) with my locks on the gate and maintained by me strictly for mining and exploration purposes. If you wanna throw in the towel and walk, go ahead... I have equipment and time is very valuable to me. I strongly suggest that you exercise your rights and quit asking them questions. They are not bound by law to educate you of your mining rights, quite the opposite in my experience. It is not illegal for them to withhold information from you regarding your rights... it's your responsibility know your rights. If they were testing you as a new claim owner I think you may have failed the first pop quiz (a quiz that you incited slaphead.gif ). By asking them questions regarding your basic mining rights, you are exposing your lack of knowledge to them thus making you pretty easy prey for FS misinformation. Don't be that guy... do all of your homework before the test, be prepared for anything in the legal arena. FS employees work for We The People and they aren't police officers. They are public servants (surface resource babysitters) who work for you the law abiding citizen, tax payer, and most importantly in this case - mining claim owner. When I went into the BLM office regarding the road closures on my claims... I didn't have any questions for them other than "when can you schedule your personnel to meet me at the gate to install my lock?". They knew better than to tell me gibberish like "well, it's not really a road anymore".... it was obvious that I knew my rights and was gonna clear that road. Next day I had my lock on the gate with the chainsaw a buzzin. They didn't question my rights and made it very clear to me that I was not to use the road for recreational purposes (I already knew that wink.gif ). Done deal.
You are the boss, take charge. I guarantee you that I know my mining rights BETTER than over 90% of the average FS employees. I thank the CP Club very much for this. happy088.gif
Never ask the FS or BLM anything pertaining to your mining rights. They are the last people I would ever ask. Absolutely know your rights before conversing with either entity.
.... or walk back and forth to your claim(s) and continue to let them bully you, they'd love to see that, even if it's a short distance. Walking is great exercise too, right? Maybe you just carry a pan, bucket, shovel.... and don't mind being wrongly told what to do. Maybe it's such a short walk you don't mind giving an inch to them this time, figuratively they're gonna want a mile though.... it'll come down the road. Eventually they'll have you pole-vaulting to your claim. They are so friendly too, friendliest Shark in the ocean, some try to "establish a good relationship with them". Do that and you won't even notice that your leg is bit off until you're bleeding to death. Since you've been asking them questions regarding your most basic of rights, I reckon they smell blood. Be prepared, be very prepared.


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russau
post Mar 26 2014, 04:56 AM
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Very good post Swizz!! dig deeper into ALL the info you need!as Swizz said," know your rights" and have a copy with you! i keep all my records/permits/laws for different states in my trailer with me as back up! also check on the rules of "right away" RS**77 (i went blank here) even streams were a road at one time! make sure this is a FS posted road and not just a easement for the FS given to them by the owner.Id also talk to the property owner to sway him into a favorable mode! i think Swizz nailed it! just make sure and know your rights inside out! the FS/BLM/and some DNRs love to bully you into thinking "their way"! thats when you knowing the laws applies big time! if anyone quotes a law, and you have a copy of it, ask them to show you in the written law exactly where it says that! they back down quickly when they see that you know your rights. AND keep all of your paper work very neat and in order. city/county/state this also slows their comments down when they see you have a good grasp on the laws/rights!and like Swizz said, "its our land,not theirs!" this isnt Federal land or BLM land its our land and they work for us! and you are NOT a "recreational anything"! you own a claim, so your a small scale miner under the 1866/1872 mining laws! you have Conressionaly given rights! dont let anyone violate your/our rights! do your research for your protection! and when its all said and done, let us know how you made out in this! GOOD LUCK!
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swizz
post Mar 26 2014, 06:14 AM
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"Small Scale Miner" is not a legal definition.... another subtle bastardization of the true miner. You are either a "Miner" or not. Just as the term "recreational" is being used by officials to skirt the 1872 Mining Laws... the same will happen with 'small scale'. No problem referring to yourself as a small scale miner to friends and family but don't use that term legally or when conversing with Governmental entities or it could bite ya in the arse.
For legal purposes and benefit of mining rights protection we are Miners, period.


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swizz
post Mar 26 2014, 06:42 AM
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... as far as contacting the property owner.
Personally, I would not do that for a number of reasons.
I would arm myself with full knowledge of my rights (done) and if he wants to contact me that's fine, I'd be as friendly as it gets. No reason for me to open that potential can of worms. I'm there to mine, not try to win the heart of some disgruntled property owner. I don't care how good of cookies ya bake... he ain't likely gonna shine bright to that road being cleared and used. I'd do everything in my power to maintain a good relationship but mining is mining, facts are facts, and laws are laws. This would all go into consideration BEFORE staking a claim of that nature. Access is very important.


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swizz
post Mar 26 2014, 06:56 AM
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Should be enough info here for you Chad to make some choices/decisions regarding that road.
That's about as far as I feel like going on this topic in general forums.
I'm glad to help more in the Protected Forum if anyone's interested. happy088.gif


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Crusty
post Mar 26 2014, 08:35 AM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Mar 26 2014, 08:56 AM) *
Should be enough info here for you Chad to make some choices/decisions regarding that road.
That's about as far as I feel like going on this topic in general forums.
I'm glad to help more in the Protected Forum if anyone's interested. happy088.gif



Some great info! Glad you're on "our" side! ;)


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Modern Day Miner
post Mar 26 2014, 10:54 AM
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I don't even know how to pole vault.
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swizz
post Mar 26 2014, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (Modern Day Miner @ Mar 26 2014, 11:54 AM) *
I don't even know how to pole vault.

How is that possible? You should have this skill in your tool bag.
I was forced to learn it in HS Gym Class. Quite likely for mining purposes I suspect, lots of Copper and Iron Ore mines where I grew up.


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post Mar 27 2014, 06:01 AM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Mar 26 2014, 07:56 AM) *
Should be enough info here for you Chad to make some choices/decisions regarding that road.
That's about as far as I feel like going on this topic in general forums.
I'm glad to help more in the Protected Forum if anyone's interested. happy088.gif


Great information Chris and I'd agree, this discussion could continue on with more details in the club members protected section for anyone interested.


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