Forest Service 228.4a, COMMENT NOW! New proposed rule! Options

[CP]

Here it is Russ. and Thank You!
Gotta get the word out to everyone!
Thank you Speedstamps and Rabid Dog also.
Good work everyone!

CP

(From Speedstamps)
Hi all,
Pulled the following post off the PLP forum and if you are one of those who write comment letters to challange new rules and regulations then this is well worth a read:

"I am focusing on mining issues which support access "rights" not mere "privileges." Privelages ride on the laurels of rights, not visa versa. PLP drafts legal comments and files timely appeals on major land planning and proposed rules. The next time we submit legal comments on anything, I will notify this group and if you want to review a set in word or word perfect I can send them out personally. I have read many comments submitted by others, however, I think you all would be shocked to see what proper legal comments -- that will hold up under appeal or litigation -- really are.

For example, comments should never, never, ever ask questions unless perhaps they are rhetorical in nature. The agencies are not required to answer questions within public comments.
Furthermore, the comments are the basis for an appeal, the appeal is the basis for a lawsuit, and the lawsuit can only address what was addressed in the comments and the appeals. You cannot raise "new" arguments in federal court that were not raised in the comments or the appeals. So in a nut shell, the comments are the "holy grail" when it comes to stopping agencies scheming and plotting. It is the power and strength of the comment content that gives the agencies cause to question what they are attempting to do.
It can be said that lawsuits are lost in the earliest stages of the case, not at the end. What you are trying to accomplish with public comment is to build your case, pad the administrative record, and every appeal and lawsuit thereafter must rely on the strength of those comments.

So what I am saying is that whenever we have major land planning and major proposed rules to deal with, I strongly urge your various groups to help fund PLP to do the proper legal comments and appeals, and then PLP would provide all of you with copies of these comments and appeals so that your group can modify them accordingly to ensure that whomever submits them has the standing to appeal and sue if needed.
If anyone is interested, I could ask Jerry Hobbs of PLP to provide a couple sets of comments for your inspection and you can cut and paste select portions of such comments into various official correspondence with the agencies. You could also cut and paste relevant sections tailored to more localized land planning or local rules within a particular forest or within a region.
I think that if various members of this group would not waste vast amounts of time and energy "reinventing the wheel" by drafting nearly worthless comments and relied on PLP to do some of this properly, then we all would be better off in the long run. I mean no offense to those who have worked hard attempting to draft public comments. This is hard work and it sucks when agencies blow them off. Of course, the agencies blow them off because the comments do not lay sufficient foundation for appeals or federal lawsuits so the agencies can and do ignore such well intentioned comments. Sorry!
Finally, even though we provide legal comments and file appeals, we do not necessarily win such appeals. This is because the appeals officer will often ignore even sound legal comments so the agency can ram it's land planning/proposed rules through anyway. However, the case is then ripe for judicial intervention in the federal courts. The problem then is that the wise use groups "drop the ball." In federal court, the administrative record including the public comments and appeals are laid wide open for judicial review. It is here that justice if any can and must be done. But, if you submit public comments and fail to appeal, or do not establish harm or standing, or fail to sue the b@stards, what is the whole point of commenting in the first place? It is because the agencies rightfully assume .. that we will not sue them or they see our comments are so lame that we couldn't win in federal court.. that the agencies blow us off!
Nevertheless, this is one thing that PLP can do which would benefit this group. As Jim Arbo put it, we all have our expertise, this comment/appeal/and lawsuit setup arena is an area where PLP excels. This is just a little food for thought....

I hope this e-mail is beneficial to this group.
Thanks,
Rabid Dog"

I left Rabid Dog's name as he deserves the credit as author of this piece.
There is additional information going up at www.PLP2.org which will help each and every one of you with your comment letters.
Colin

Government belongs to, and should answer to, and serve the citizens. Citizens do not belong to, answer to, or serve the government.

Here is the PLP link...doesn't work in the quoted area. :) http://www.plp2.org/

And this link goes to the PLP forum section called
Pending Rules, Regulations, and Projects.
You can view the topic there.

[russau]

thankyou! now i hope everyone uses this as a referance to write their own comment letter.

[CP]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to bring this back up to the top.
YOU HAVE 1 WEEK LEFT TO COMMENT!

vcb just added some more links and info on this topic in the
Laws, Regulations and Guidelines
Thanks vcb and welcome to the CP forums.

[Pick&Shovel]

Unfortunately due to the shortness of time and my newcomer experience
to the prospecting arena I wasn't able to send in the best comment I felt I
should have. Just the same I pointed out some of the negative effects
that this proposed change could effect and submitted that they leave
the current regulation as presently written.

Also will be sending in a donation to PLP as well to help in the fight for
preservation of public land access. I tried to access their forums but kept getting "critical error" messages from their server in my browser.

[russau]

hey pick, try again. the site may have been down for maitainance

[CP]

Great work everyone!

If you haven't sent your comment in yet you still have about 4 1/2 hours left.
Just tell them what and why you think the rule is wrong in whole or parts.
But do comment! They need to hear from us in numbers!
LARGE NUMBERS! :P :)

CP