SOOoooo, confused!! Options

[AuRush69]

Ok Clear Creek is fun and all but i want to get into some "Real" gold recovery, not just a speck here and there.

so I've been lookin around using Google Earth and using several different add-on mapper tools ( that me show me active claims, closed claims, and land patents with Serial #'s for all of the above) just so we're clear ,I know i'll need to get out in the field and Authenticate every thing to make sure it's open,valid and properly staked.

But for giggles let's say I Found a spot that is surrounded by 3-4 patented properties, has a couple "Active" 160 acre Association claims near by (consuming whole Quadrants) and 25 some odd "Closed" claims all overlapping each other in the said area.

But it seems I can SQueeze in a nice little 20 acre Placer claim, has FS Road access right thru it, has about lets say about 600 feet of creek running thru it.

lets say hypotheticly that Everything is perfect and I have every right to go poking around and I find some good samples in said creek and decide i want to make a claim.

Here's my problem, placers are generally Located using MTRS right ? but lets say i dunno 75% of the 20 acre claim probably will not produce anything . I Don't know any thing about Meets and Bounds except that's how Load claims are staked.

Can you use meets an bounds for a placer claim and in the process gain more creek (Cause it has more room till it hits a patented claim but it crosses over a boundry line on the MTRS grid) or would A MTRS type of claim be unacceptable and rejected by the BLM, because of "wasted land resource"( for lack of better words) ?

I'm kinda lost and have no idea how these things work :D any input would be greatly appreciated.

[swizz]

so I've been lookin around using Google Earth and using several different add-on mapper tools ( that me show me active claims, closed claims, and land patents with Serial #'s for all of the above) just so we're clear ,I know i'll need to get out in the field and Authenticate every thing to make sure it's open,valid and properly staked.

Let's try to simplify this process without the extravagant hypothetical scenario you presented.... one step at a time.
Starting with your claim boundary research:
Google Earth, mapping tools, and layers are not accurate.
If you want to learn, view, copy, and reference actual claim boundaries (Lode, Placer, Millsite) patented or not... you should pay a visit to the county clerk/recorder.
Every legitimate, active, and filed mining claim MUST have a corresponding map and claim boundary (corner marker) description included in it's public record file for you to view and copy.
Know the Claim name or Claim owner's name or CMC # OR Township, Meridian, Section, and Range of the area you're interested in prior to your visit.. this will help you narrow things down and communicate with the Clerk/Recorder to pull claim files faster. Once you pull the files it will be easy to identify existing claim boundaries, points of discovery, claim status, etc.... whether researching at home or in the field.
This should be the cornerstone for your initial research in determining YOUR potential claim boundaries and/or access if the area is surrounded by active claims, private property, or other.
It all starts at the County Clerk/Recorder's office, reviewing public record files... that's one of the things they are there for.

[Woody]

"Can you use meets an bounds for a placer claim and in the process gain more creek (Cause it has more room till it hits a patented claim but it crosses over a boundary line on the MTRS grid) or would A MTRS type of claim be unacceptable and rejected by the BLM, because of "wasted land resource"( for lack of better words) ?"

Hello AuRush69,

Not sure if I am reading this right but I think you are asking if the boundaries of your claim have to follow pre-set zoning lines?

The answer to that would be, absolutely not! It might be a little easier to use those preset lines to define your claim but if the desired terrain doesn't match, it then becomes your responsibility to define and mark the boundaries of the claim. It can be a Z or X pattern if you wish but becomes your responsibility to properly define them in a manner that is expectable to the officials. Woody.

[AuRush69]

Thanks for the Info guys.

Spent the last couple hours beating up my computer trying to figure out LR2000 system LOL i think i got it licked.

still very confusing ,think i'll take a nap and work on it some more later :D

Did find some thin interesting though :

08/18/1997 480 EVID OF ASSMT FILED 1997
08/18/1997 483 SMALL MINER CERT FILED 1998
08/23/1996 480 EVID OF ASSMT FILED 1996
08/23/1996 483 SMALL MINER CERT FILED 1997
02/15/1996 482 MAINTENANCE FEE/$100 1996

06/21/2007 163 CASE SENT TO NARA DEN/049-07-0062;
05/28/1999 393 DECISION/NOTICE ISSUED NONFILING
08/31/1998 631 CLAIM ABANDONED/FORFEITED
08/18/1997 170 ADDRESS CHANGE FILED XXXXXX JEFF M
03/18/1996 669 LAND STATUS CHECKED
03/18/1996 974 AUTOMATED RECORD VERIF JWB
02/15/1996 501 ACCT ADV IN LEAD FILE CMCXXXXXX-XXXXXX

looks like they didn't record it @ the County ?????? and what's the SENT TO NARA in '07 about ???

[swizz]

I personally suck at LR2000, and I have logged some hours on it. The system requests a lot of specific criteria.
If you want to run a report on LR... Dan would definitely be the guy to talk to, he's got it dialed-in.

[ASTROBLEME]

Thanks for the Info guys.

Spent the last couple hours beating up my computer trying to figure out LR2000 system LOL i think i got it licked.

still very confusing ,think i'll take a nap and work on it some more later :D

Did find some thin interesting though :

08/18/1997 480 EVID OF ASSMT FILED 1997
08/18/1997 483 SMALL MINER CERT FILED 1998
08/23/1996 480 EVID OF ASSMT FILED 1996
08/23/1996 483 SMALL MINER CERT FILED 1997
02/15/1996 482 MAINTENANCE FEE/$100 1996

06/21/2007 163 CASE SENT TO NARA DEN/049-07-0062;
05/28/1999 393 DECISION/NOTICE ISSUED NONFILING
08/31/1998 631 CLAIM ABANDONED/FORFEITED
08/18/1997 170 ADDRESS CHANGE FILED XXXXXX JEFF M
03/18/1996 669 LAND STATUS CHECKED
03/18/1996 974 AUTOMATED RECORD VERIF JWB
02/15/1996 501 ACCT ADV IN LEAD FILE CMCXXXXXX-XXXXXX

looks like they didn't record it @ the County ?????? and what's the SENT TO NARA in '07 about ???

Hello AuRush69,

The "CASE SENT TO NARA" entry means that the holding time for the BLM records has elapsed and the documents in that file were delivered to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). That is the only legal authority BLM has to dispose of the records that are no longer needed for government business.

I don't know if the records are destroyed once they reach NARA or if they can be retrieved. The county clerk and recorder will keep the mining claim records indefinitely so as swizz suggests, it is a good place to research records.

You are to be commended for taking the time and interest in doing the research prior to sampling an area.

ASTROBLEME

[AuRush69]

OK I think I found the answer I was looking for. :) i love the internet

The Revised Statutes of the United States relating to Mineral lands and mining resources:

Sec. 2331. Survey of placer claims ; limitation of.

Where placer-claims are upon surveyed lands, and con-
form to legal subdivisions, no further survey or plat shall
be required, and all placer-mining claims located after
the tenth day of May, eighteen hundred and seventy-two,
shall conform as near as practicable with the United States
system of public-land surveys, and the rectangular subdi-
visions of such surveys, and no such location shall include
more than twenty acres for each individual claimant ; but
where placer-claims cannot be conformed to legal subdivis-
ions, survey and plat shall be made as on unsurveyed lands ;
and where by the segregation of mineral land in any legal
subdivision, a quantity of agricultural land less than forty
acres remains, such fractional portion of agricultural land
may be entered by any party qualified by law, for home-
stead or pre-emption purposes.

Sec. 10 of the act of 1872, 17 U. S. Stat. 94, read : Sec. 10. That the act entitled
"An act to amend au act granting the right of way to ditch and canal owners over the
pubUc lands, and for other purposes," approved July nintli.. eigliteen hundred and
seventy, shall be and remain in full force, except as to the proceedings to obtain a
patent, which shall be similar to the proceedings prescribed by sections six and seven
of this act, for obtaining patents to vein or lode claims ; but where said placer-claims
ehall be upon surveyed lands, and conform to legal subdivisions, no further surveyor
plat shall be required, and all placer mining-claims hereafter located shall conform
as near as practicable with the United States system of public land surveys, and the
rectangular subdivisions of such, surveys, and no such location shall include more
than twenty acres for each individual claimant, but where placer-claims cannot be
conformed to legal subdivisions, survey and plat shall be made as on unsurveyed
lands : Provided, That proceedings now pending may be prosecuted to their final
determination under existing laws ; but the provisions of this act, when not in con-
flict with existing laws, shall apply to such cases : And provided also, That where by
the segregation of mineral land in any legal subdivision a quantity of agricultural
landless than forty acres remains, said fractional portion of agricultural land may
be entered by any party qualified by law for homestead or pre-emption purposes.

Sec. 10 oi the act of 1870, IG U. S. Stat. 214, read : Sec. 16. That so much of the
act of March third, eighteen hundred and fifty-three, entitled "An act to provide for
the survey of the public lands in California, the granting of pre-emption rights, and
for other purposes," as provides that none other than township lines shall be sur-
veyed where the lands are mineral, is hereby repealed. And the public surveys are
hereby extended over all such lands : Provided, That all subdividing of surveyed
lands into lots less than one hundi-ed and sixty acres may be done by county and local
surveyors at the expense of the claimants : And provided further, That nothing
herein contained shall require the survey of waste or useless lands.


yeah i'm still confused

[Woody]

Wow,

I read this twice and now feel like a violated little school girl. The only thing I understood was the very last sentie ance.

[AuRush69]

Comes down to : If you can color within the lines Please do , but if you can't then make it what you need (Within your allotted 20/person/claim, Anything left over from you scribbling all over our maps is available to proper farmers to raise their 27.2 childrens and cattle(and maybe grow corn). At least that's what i got out of it. LOL

seriously though, I'm no where near ready to stake anything yet , but come late spring look out i'm gona look like an ant in an ant farm.

sometimes I think the research is almost as much fun as the field work.

[CP]

Welcome AuRush69, you've found quite a mouth full there....

Great answers everyone, thanks for your input. I agree, anyone who digs into the proper research prior to just heading out into the field deserves high kudos....GOOD JOB!

There are still many large unsurveyed tracts in many western states but where there are historical surveys then it's very easy to use that MTRS data to both find and record claims filed. On unsurveyed lands then you'll be in for a bit more work but still the MTRS data should be viable to a degree but GPS maybe more detailed for the description details in a new claim file.
Best idea is to check out the county records as said above for current claims.....you'll be able to find the most recent/accurate claim info (assuming filed properly) from their public records.

Yep, the research is as much fun as the field work sometimes. Just remeber to double check all your findings and cross reference to other sources for verification when ever possible.
By spring time I'll bet you'll have a great handle on it. Feel free to ask more questions as they come up too.

LR can be a rough learnig curve but once you've got it figured out it's a great tool for research as well. I've done a couple turorials on the system in the past which I hope helped those that were in attendence.

Good luck on the research diggin'!

CP