How do you determine when your disturbance becomes significant?? Options

[realnice]

...I paid the bond and am operating again..They tried to screw me in a few other ways and I had to inform them of the laws further. Headache is over for a while. No heavy equipment up there yet...

[swizz]

Very good news!

[Denise]

...I paid the bond and am operating again..They tried to screw me in a few other ways and I had to inform them of the laws further. Headache is over for a while. No heavy equipment up there yet...

So does that mean you can have heavy equipment there now?

[realnice]

No . I'm still limited to hand tools

[Denise]

That doesn't even seem right of the forest service to shut your operations down in the first place with no significant disturbance.
That's not "fostering and encouraging", that's just violating your rights!

I guess I'm still really confused on what you benefited from, by filing the POO and paying the $2,000. bond?

[Caveman]

Realnice, is your claim located in an ACEC (Area of Critical Environmental Concern)? It seems that more restrictive rules may apply if it is. I am running into those just trying to prospect in the Grape Creek Canyon ACEC, seems I can only pan or pick up rocks.... no "mechanized" equipment, etc. "Mechanized" includes battery powered items, excluding detectors.

[swizz]

"mechanized" equipment, etc. "Mechanized" includes battery powered items, excluding detectors.

well.....
"Mechanized" typically pertains to machines that move ore from one place to another (like a conveyor, dump truck, loader, backhoe, or excavator). NOI required.
"Motorized" typically pertains to electric or gas powered hand carried mining equipment as termed within "casual use".

[Caveman]

well.....
"Mechanized" typically pertains to machines that move ore from one place to another (like a conveyor, dump truck, loader, backhoe, or excavator). NOI required.
"Motorized" typically pertains to electric or gas powered hand carried mining equipment as termed within "casual use".

The BLM broadens the definition of mechanized for an ACEC, while severely restricting casual use. In an ACEC, only hand tools, stream sluices, detectors, and pans fit the "casual use". If you have anything with a motor, be it battery, gas, or whatever powered, it's considered "mechanized" and needs a POO, even if there is no claim. I went over this for more than an hour with the woman at the BLM office in Canon City, and I asked a lot of questions regarding this. Yes, you can file a POO w/o a claim in an ACEC, you have to follow the requirements just like you have a claim, you just don't have the mineral rights - and if someone files a claim on top of you, you're done!

[swizz]

I've never heard of ACEC. New designation?
What exactly gives the BLM the authority or reasoning to designate an area as "ACEC"... what is the criteria for that designation?
This is new to me.

[Caveman]

I just ran into this, I do not know how long it has been around - at least since 2010 - "ACEC" is "Area of Critical Environmental Concern". Sensitive areas, endangered species, cultural/historical areas, etc. fall into this. "Grape Creek ACEC", "Arkansas (River) Canyon Lands ACEC", and "Browns Canyon ACEC" are the ones on the Arkansas River, but there are many more. Go to LR2000 Geocommunicator, under layers select ACEC, and you can see what ACEC is nearest your claim. Special rules apply for an ACEC. ARRRGGGGGHHHH!

Update - ACEC's have been around since 1976:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_of_Criti...nmental_Concern

[russau]

im not as up-to-date as many are here but it sure seems to me that we are being regulated to death from these gubermint agenceys. pretty soon we wont be able to pick our nose on "our" federally managed land.

[swizz]

Go to LR2000 Geocommunicator, under layers select ACEC, and you can see what ACEC is nearest your claim.

Thanks! I went to geocom and hit the ACEC layer... sure enough they popped up. There aren't any near the claims thankfully.

[Caveman]

Both of the places I want to work near here are in an ACEC, dang it all. Oh, well - $25 to run the trommel at Point Bar for 2 years isn't so bad when you are at my level, and I can still pan the creek.... just have to find the claims and their boundaries - if there are any. I would like to run the dredge into the trommel somewhere for grins and giggles. Realnice - sorry I hijacked your thread.... What's the status of your situation? Are you going to be able to run heavy equipment there, or are you still under review?

[swizz]

I have been enlightened regarding ACEC (and I should have researched it myself), Thanks Dan.
Regardless of what a BLM or NFS employee told you or anyone else...
The BLM, USFS, or other land management agency cannot usurp or amend the Mining Laws Of 1872 using ACEC designation as a platform on public owned land, they might like for us to think so... especially if people refer to themselves as recreationalists or hobbyists when asking questions.
Side Note: "recreational" and "hobby" land users are not protected by the Mining Laws Of 1872. Please avoid use of those terms on public owned lands. We are either "mining" or "prospecting" on public owned land, period. Mining and prospecting are what the mining laws pertain to. If on rec designated lands like Clear Crk Open Space, Cache Crk, etc then yes, we are recreational land users/hobbyists and are not enjoying any mining "rights" while there... just recreational privileges granted by the land owner. I know this sounds knit-picky but it is very important.
Anyway... I'll get off my soap box
Land Management Agencies (BLM, NFS, etc) do not have the authority to withdraw public owned land from mineral entry or regulate actual mining or prospecting (for locatable mineral resources) based on ACEC designation. There is no built-in mining hurdle attached to ACEC designation.

[CP]

You're welcome Chris.
I'd heard of the ACEC before and knew exactly where when the 1976 act was mentioned. You are spot on with the difference of recreational/hobbyist vs really prospecting in the field too Chris. Even for those who view themselves as that level (hobbyist or recreational) must understand the difference or you will be treated/restricted like a recreational user in a special use area, when actually the area of interest is not specially designated that you questioned the official about.
At any level as this thread demonstrates, claim owner or not, unfortunately our gov officials seem to be more apt to give a personal opinion rather than laws......and very sadly, if the citizen believes the opinion to be fact then they've had their rights violated in my opinion by not having been given the proper (legal) answer their job dictates!

The search feature in this forum will help emmensely for those who want to find a specific topic such as this or related. Although using ACEC in search wouldn't have brought up the info needed......but searching the FLPMA will (Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976), which will bring up a thread from several years back I posted about this and a very important excerpt from the act.

One excerpt of interest is..........
Sec. 302 (43USC1732) page 21 of the FLMPA pdf
no provision of this section or any other section of this Act shall in any way amend the Mining Law of 1872 or impair the rights of any locators or claims under that Act, including, but not limited to, rights of ingress and egress.

Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 thread
You'll also find a download link in that thread to read the entire act which has some ineteresting info on the timelines and requirements of finalizing any withdrawls (ACEC) areas. The officials could be pushing outside their authority? NO WAY! ......Oooops that was sarcasim!

It never helps when we expect to ask a tax paid uniformed official for a straight answer and later find out it's pure bullsh*t!
But like Chris just said, you absolutely must double check their answers or be willing to accept the restrictions born of wishful thinkin' on the rangers part. But who if not the citizens will call them on that bs? It is OUR LAND!

Dig in folks, it really does pay off for you personallly!