ColoradoProspector            CP Club Membership Info.            Miners Market

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Mining claims location or patented, Placer, Lode, Mill site
ColoradoProspect...
post Jan 28 2010, 03:07 PM
Post #1


Master Mucker!
*****

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,532
Joined: 7-October 03
From: Colorado
Member No.: 3



Mining claims are real property and can be sold, traded, or leased as with any real property.
There are several types of claims which should be discussed to teach the differences in not only ownership, but also how research varies because of status and what that means to you in the field as a prospector.

First there are patented (private land with deed) or location claims.
Again these are both real property but differ in the fact that a patented claim (filed as location originally), has since been perfected and patented giving the owner actual permanent deed with 100% ownership in the land.

Location claims are also private property in every sense, but the claim owner owns (has claimed) the minerals within that claim and has not perfected the claim to patent for a deed yet.

Within either of those catagories, there would have been originally for patented, or would be now for location claims, one of three different types of claims possibly filed originally. Lode, Placer or Mill site.

Lode claim - For hard rock mining ore bodies drifting or shaft type mining. Orientated with the deposit or dyke formation's direction and centered upon it. 600' x 1500' size (20 acres) and were in depths of 2000' each for some areas historically.

Placer claim - For aluvial glacial till areas and their related drainages/deposits where "placer" material (not in host postition) would have been re-deposited in favorable conditions by water, erosion, gravity, and or other geologic evolution. 20 acre limit each. Normal operations would be benches or pit operations in addition to water processes where locations favor.

Mill site claim - For use with either lode or placer claims to process material from that mine and or store equipment and supplies. Mill sites claims do not claim minerals under them but do contain mineral rights when patented.
5 acre limit each and can be non-adjacent to the claim being mined.

All three (Lode, Placer, or Mill site) could have been patented and are now deeded private land, or could currently be location claims within NF or BLM lands.

Research varies between patented/private land and location claims within national lands.
For private patented lands you'll need to check the county assesors office as each private land owner pays property tax each year and those records are kept there.
For location claims though, you'll need to check the clerk and recorders office as this will be where those records are filed.

You can also find claim information from the BLM's LR2000 database, but with time guideline laws written as they are for new claim filings, you'll find the most upto date information through the county offices on location claims. When you're finalizing your research for your own claim to stake and file, this timeline could make a difference if someone else had recently staked/filed in that area.

We thought this might make a good read/topic for those interested. There are many many more details involved with properly researching, staking, filing, and then working your own mining claim which we all can add in for the future discussion as time goes.

Having a good understanding of what to do in the field starts with the proper knowledge base, which reflects on your field operations and success. DIG IN!!

For those interested in learning more about the mining laws and regulations that uphold them, check out our Prospecting and Mining Laws, Regulations etc. section of the forum too.


--------------------
CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com

IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT!
MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!!



__[]''''''''________
(;;;;;;;;;;;))...[........]__ . ,ooooooo, [*^*^*^*^] . [*^*^*^*^]
/[__CP___CLUB__]--[_______]-‘[______]-‘[_______]
<`oo’------------ ‘OO’ -- ‘o’ ----- `o’ - ‘o’ -- ‘o’ -- ‘o‘ ---- ‘o’ --------------
#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#````#
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mrs.CP
post Apr 25 2011, 06:05 AM
Post #2


Master Mucker!
*****

Group: Admin
Posts: 6,002
Joined: 7-October 03
From: Colorado
Member No.: 4



Great info to know Dan, thanks! happy088.gif
I thought I would bump this thread back up for those looking for this kind of information about claims.

Knowledge is power!


--------------------
Education is the key to the future,
and participation opens the door to opportunity.


Owner/Webmaster
www.ColoradoProspector.com


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kmontoya911
post Apr 25 2011, 03:56 PM
Post #3


Shovel Buster!
***

Group: Members
Posts: 91
Joined: 31-March 11
Member No.: 15,180



Please excuse my ignorance. I have not read much about claims yet, since I don't have any intention, yet, of persuing one. But, I have a question about something in the orriginal post. It states that location claims are private property in every sense.

Does that mean that a piece of national forrest or BLM land, that is calimed, is now off limits to everyone for other activities? No fishing, hunting or hiking on a claimed piece of NF land or BLM?

Thank you.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ColoradoProspect...
post Apr 25 2011, 07:44 PM
Post #4


Master Mucker!
*****

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,532
Joined: 7-October 03
From: Colorado
Member No.: 3



Good question to pose, many folks wonder the same thing.

Actually no it does not mean the claimant can restrict all access just because the claim has been staked and filed. It does mean however that if there are mining activities taking place that you may not use the claim or area being worked. Other activities could/would interfere with the miners work and create unsafe conditions for the recreationalist.

When there are claims filed but no mining operation work is being or has been done, then other folks may still use the claimed area for camping, fishing, hiking etc. (mining operations being larger digs, pits, tunnels, equipment, buildings etc-not hand carried equipment type digs)
Other folks however may not collect any minerals or samples (including surface finds) from the ground what so ever because the minerals have been claimed by the claimant.

Hopefully that helps clear things up for you a bit but post up more questions if needed.

CP


--------------------
CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com

IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT!
MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!!



__[]''''''''________
(;;;;;;;;;;;))...[........]__ . ,ooooooo, [*^*^*^*^] . [*^*^*^*^]
/[__CP___CLUB__]--[_______]-‘[______]-‘[_______]
<`oo’------------ ‘OO’ -- ‘o’ ----- `o’ - ‘o’ -- ‘o’ -- ‘o‘ ---- ‘o’ --------------
#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#````#
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kmontoya911
post Apr 26 2011, 02:24 PM
Post #5


Shovel Buster!
***

Group: Members
Posts: 91
Joined: 31-March 11
Member No.: 15,180



Thank you for the reply. That is more in line with how I had originally thought claims worked, for those who don't have the claim. Recreation=ok, picking up rocks etc.=not ok.

I actually saw a posted claim for the first time two years ago while elk hunting, I was looking at a huge hill of broken quartz and wondering. Then I went arouund the other side and saw a sign stating the mineral rights were under claim, do not remove any rocks, minerals, etc.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hanael
post May 28 2011, 08:09 AM
Post #6


Diggin' In!
**

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 19-May 11
From: Loveland,CO
Member No.: 18,629



Dose anyone know what happens if it is found that a claim is over 20 acres? Also can someone operate a placer claim in the same area as a lode claim.


--------------------
The beginning is near!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
OkieJon
post May 8 2012, 07:51 PM
Post #7


Shovel Buster!
***

Group: Members
Posts: 78
Joined: 30-June 08
From: Southwest,Oklahoma
Member No.: 5,617



QUOTE (ColoradoProspector @ Apr 25 2011, 09:44 PM) *
Good question to pose, many folks wonder the same thing.

Actually no it does not mean the claimant can restrict all access just because the claim has been staked and filed. It does mean however that if there are mining activities taking place that you may not use the claim or area being worked. Other activities could/would interfere with the miners work and create unsafe conditions for the recreationalist.

When there are claims filed but no mining operation work is being or has been done, then other folks may still use the claimed area for camping, fishing, hiking etc. (mining operations being larger digs, pits, tunnels, equipment, buildings etc-not hand carried equipment type digs)
Other folks however may not collect any minerals or samples (including surface finds) from the ground what so ever because the minerals have been claimed by the claimant.

Hopefully that helps clear things up for you a bit but post up more questions if needed.

CP


Does this go for Patented Claims as well?


--------------------
www.crowbottomblues.com

www.myspace.com/jcpasss
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ASTROBLEME
post May 11 2012, 05:29 PM
Post #8


Rock Bar!
****

Group: Members
Posts: 317
Joined: 16-October 08
From: Central Colorado
Member No.: 6,813



Hello OkieJon,

When a claim goes through the patent process, the land ownership is transferred from the USA to the claimant. The USA may reserve some rights such as the right-of-way for ditches and canals. All minerals and surface ownership becomes private. A person wanting to collect minerals, prospect or mine would certainly need the permission of the surface landowner and if the minerals were segregated from the surface at some point in time, the mineral estate owner would also need to give permission as well.

ASTROBLEME


--------------------
http://www.meteoritecrater.com/

"Some day this crater is going to be a greatly talked about place, and if the above credit is due, as is certainly the case, I would like to have it generally known for the sake of the children." Daniel Moreau Barringer 2/1/1912 in a letter about the Barringer Meteorite Crater, Arizona USA
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ColoradoProspect...
post May 17 2012, 05:40 AM
Post #9


Master Mucker!
*****

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,532
Joined: 7-October 03
From: Colorado
Member No.: 3



Thanks for posting up that answer Astrobleme. I believe the patent passes deed from the "public domain" though not the USA/gov itself as owner since they are not the owners......we the citizens own that land. When claims are filed, the claimant holds the claim from "the united states and citizens" as the law reads. If I'm remembering it correctly.

QUOTE (Hanael @ May 28 2011, 09:09 AM) *
Dose anyone know what happens if it is found that a claim is over 20 acres? Also can someone operate a placer claim in the same area as a lode claim.


For claims over 20 acres I'd imagine it to be an association claim. Each individual claim is limited to 20 acres or less, but associations can equal as much as 160 acres total. (8 claims/20 acres each)

Lode claims and placer claims can occupy the same ground (looking at a map) but the claims are completely different from one another as far as claim filing/type.


--------------------
CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com

IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT!
MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!!



__[]''''''''________
(;;;;;;;;;;;))...[........]__ . ,ooooooo, [*^*^*^*^] . [*^*^*^*^]
/[__CP___CLUB__]--[_______]-‘[______]-‘[_______]
<`oo’------------ ‘OO’ -- ‘o’ ----- `o’ - ‘o’ -- ‘o’ -- ‘o‘ ---- ‘o’ --------------
#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#````#
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ColoradoProspect...
post Feb 25 2014, 07:03 AM
Post #10


Master Mucker!
*****

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,532
Joined: 7-October 03
From: Colorado
Member No.: 3



Some great information for review in this thread. info_grin.gif
Dig in, discover your independence!


--------------------
CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com

IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT!
MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!!



__[]''''''''________
(;;;;;;;;;;;))...[........]__ . ,ooooooo, [*^*^*^*^] . [*^*^*^*^]
/[__CP___CLUB__]--[_______]-‘[______]-‘[_______]
<`oo’------------ ‘OO’ -- ‘o’ ----- `o’ - ‘o’ -- ‘o’ -- ‘o‘ ---- ‘o’ --------------
#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#``````#````#
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Clay Diggins
post Nov 24 2014, 05:13 PM
Post #11


Diggin' In!
**

Group: Members
Posts: 23
Joined: 23-September 14
Member No.: 118,169



There is a fourth type of mining claim not previously mentioned here. The Tunnel site claim. Tunnel site claims are true mineral claims that can be up to 3,000 feet long. You will find the authority for them in Section 4 of the 1872 Mining Act:

QUOTE
Section 4. That where a tunnel is run for the development of a vein or lode, or for the discovery of mines, the owners of such tunnel shall have the right of possession of all veins or lodes within three thousand feet from the face of such tunnel on the line thereof not previously known to exist; discovered in such tunnel, to the same extent as if discovered from the surface; and locations on the line of such tunnel of veins or lodes not appearing on the surface, made by other parties after the commencement of the tunnel, and while the same is being prosecuted with reasonable diligence, shall be invalid; but failure to prosecute the work on the tunnel for six months shall be considered as an abandonment of the right to all undiscovered veins on the line of said tunnel.


There are currently 17 Active Tunnel site claims in Colorado.

Heavy Pans
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fenixsmom
post Nov 24 2014, 05:49 PM
Post #12


Rock Bar!
****

Group: Members
Posts: 752
Joined: 13-January 14
From: Lakewood, Colorado
Member No.: 116,305



Huh. I thought tunnels where filed under lode claims. Good to know!


--------------------
(Insert motivational quote)
PROUD CP ANNUAL MEMBER
Club Core member
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
EMac
post Nov 26 2014, 04:20 PM
Post #13


Shovel Buster!
***

Group: Members
Posts: 197
Joined: 25-July 14
From: Westminster, CO
Member No.: 117,949



I'm not sure I'd call a tunnel site a claim based off what I'm reading, and even the BLM says "A Tunnel Site can be regarded more as a right-a-way, than a mining claim."

Filing is the same as a lode claim, and any discoveries therein require filing a separate lode claim (43 CFR 3832.44(a) and 43 CFR 3832.45).

Sources:
43 CFR 3832 (Subpart D are the Tunnel Sites)

and 43 CFR 3843

My takeaway is they're used to gain access to a lode claim or are used for underground prospecting, and are likely beyond the resources of most the folks seeking information on this site. Red herring?


--------------------
Opera non verba 24.9% towards lifetime...
"All courses of action are risky, so prudence is not in avoiding danger (it's impossible), but calculating risk and acting decisively. Make mistakes of ambition and not mistakes of sloth. Develop the strength to do bold things, not the strength to suffer." ~Niccolς Machiavelli
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Clay Diggins
post Nov 26 2014, 05:41 PM
Post #14


Diggin' In!
**

Group: Members
Posts: 23
Joined: 23-September 14
Member No.: 118,169



QUOTE (EMac @ Nov 26 2014, 04:20 PM) *
I'm not sure I'd call a tunnel site a claim based off what I'm reading, and even the BLM says "A Tunnel Site can be regarded more as a right-a-way, than a mining claim."

Filing is the same as a lode claim, and any discoveries therein require filing a separate lode claim (43 CFR 3832.44(a) and 43 CFR 3832.45).

Sources:
43 CFR 3832 (Subpart D are the Tunnel Sites)

and 43 CFR 3843

My takeaway is they're used to gain access to a lode claim or are used for underground prospecting, and are likely beyond the resources of most the folks seeking information on this site. Red herring?


You may be right about being beyond the resources of most here, you would know better than I. After all there are only 17 Tunnel Site claims in Colorado. The reason I know there are 17 in Colorado is because the BLM puts them in the Tunnel Site claim designation rather than as a lode, placer or millsite claim.

Then again that limited number of Tunnel Site claims may be due to other similar misunderstandings of the 1872 Tunnel Site grant. Tunnels are useful for much more than a waste adit or drainage. The law specifically calls out mineral exploration as one of the valid uses for Tunnel Sites. It's not all about servicing an existing lode claim. The same law addresses the mineral rights attendant to the Tunnel Site claim - as they do with the other three types of claims in the law.

Certainly this is not open to any personal opinions about the validity of Tunnel Claims. It's an established fact.

I've already given you the Congressional Act enabling the making of Tunnel Site claims. It does grant "right of possession of all veins or lodes within three thousand feet from the face of such tunnel on the line thereof not previously known to exist; discovered in such tunnel, to the same extent as if discovered from the surface". The 3,000 feet granted clearly exceeds the 1,500 foot maximum allotted to lode claims so there shouldn't be any confusion leading one to believe they are lode claims.

If you had any doubt about your interpretation of the wording in that Act you need look no further than the Supreme Court's overuling of the Colorado Supreme Court's decision about the nature of Tunnel Site claims. GLACIER MOUNTAIN SILVER MIN. CO. v. WILLIS 1888.

I've got lots more Supreme Court opinions through the years supporting the Tunnel Sites enabled in the 1872 Mining Act but I think one Supreme Court opinion is enough for an internet forum. biggrin.gif

Then again there are the Colorado State Revised Statutes that specifically recognize Tunnel Site claims.

QUOTE
Tunnel Sites 34-43-113, CRS 1973
If any person locates a tunnel claim for the purpose of discovery, he shall record
the same, specifying the place of commencement and termination thereof, with the
names of the parties interested therein.
A tunnel site gives the owner of a tunnel which is run in good faith the possessory
right to fifteen hundred (1500) feet of any blind lodes cut, discovered, or intersected by
such tunnel, which were not previously known to exist within three thousand (3000)
feet from the face or point of commencement of such tunnel. Face of tunnel is construed
to mean the point at which the tunnel actually enters cover.


The Congressional Act, the Supreme Court, the State of Colorado and the CFR all consider the location of a Tunnel Site to be valid possessory right to the minerals discovered. The procedure specified to make such a location is clearly separate and distinct from the location requirements of the three other types of claims - both in Federal and State law. The Supreme Court has consistently referred to Tunnel Site locations to be mineral claims with equal rights to other types of mineral locations.

You are entitled to your take but it is clearly in opposition to long established law and rights.

Trivial - perhaps - unless you wish to cut a tunnel.

Red Herring - really?

Heavy Pans and a happy Thanksgiving to all of you. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
EMac
post Nov 26 2014, 06:51 PM
Post #15


Shovel Buster!
***

Group: Members
Posts: 197
Joined: 25-July 14
From: Westminster, CO
Member No.: 117,949



Seems you've missed my point, so I'll be explicit with it: My take, and the red herring comment is this isn't practical information for the folks here. I'm not sure how long established laws might change this take, but I am curious since you mention it.

Most discussions I'm reading (which is what drew me here) are around filing our first claims (me included), recognizing minerals, and light duty equipment. People cutting 3000' tunnels into rock I would hope would come here to help neophytes such as myself since they know and live this stuff already. While I'm sure there's probably one or two here, everyone I've met is a long ways from cutting 3000' tunnels.

If you're reading that I don't believe you, I encourage you to click the links below which will take you to the GPO's published laws on the matter. These are codified under Title 43 Code of Federal Regulations. You are correct that tunnel sites grant you rights, but not exactly as you quote.

Actual 43 CFR 3832.44 & .45 quote (hyperlinked so you can verify; emphasis is mine):
QUOTE
§ 3832.44 What rights do I have to minerals within my tunnel site?
(a) If you located your tunnel site in good faith, you may acquire the right to any blind veins, ledges, or lodes cut, discovered, or intersected by your tunnel, by locating a lode claim, if they—
(1) Are located within a radius of 1,500 feet from the tunnel axis; and
(2) Were not previously known to exist on the surface and within the limits of your tunnel.
(b) Your site is protected from other parties making locations of lodes within the sidelines of the tunnel and with-in the 3,000-foot length of the tunnel, unless such lodes appear upon the surface or were previously known to exist.
© You must diligently work on the tunnel site. If you cease working on it for more than 6 consecutive months, you will lose your right to possess all unknown, undiscovered veins, lodes, or ledges that your tunnel may intersect.
§ 3832.45 How do I obtain any minerals that I discover within my tunnel site?
(a) Even if you have located the tunnel site, you must separately locate a lode claim to acquire the possessory right to a blind vein, lode, or ledge you have discovered within the boundaries of the tunnel site sidelines.
(b) The date of location of your lode claim is retroactive to the date of location of your tunnel site.


--------------------
Opera non verba 24.9% towards lifetime...
"All courses of action are risky, so prudence is not in avoiding danger (it's impossible), but calculating risk and acting decisively. Make mistakes of ambition and not mistakes of sloth. Develop the strength to do bold things, not the strength to suffer." ~Niccolς Machiavelli
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th December 2014 - 06:35 PM