Prospectors Uniting-Q & A, Thoughts/input for the discussion. Options

[CP]

Met with the Kid and Anita this evening after the hearing.
Not time to celebrate just yet but they said the judge is starting to act like he notices something stinks......... ;) :P

The Kid has a decision hearing on the 24th I believe.... <_< I'll have to verify that one.

CP

[Redpaw]

I'd like to apologize for being so busy with the Oregon Beach issue as to not ask the Question...."What is happening with this issue?"

Jesse, Quinten, CP talk to us, and let us know what is happening to this issue. I may be busy and 1700 miles away but I care and I want to know what is the standpoint of the actions so far.

*Ding *Dinnnng - next Fight

[Denise]

Ok...For starters.............Never apologize for being busy helping fight for our rights!!! :) ;)

Is it ok if I talk to you Redpaw....
Dan left this morning to go to Quinten's hearing. It started at 10am. He told me as soon as he hears something, he will let me know. He promised to get pics, and I will post them as soon as he gets back here. ;)
I wish them luck, and hopefully they brought their appatite......Because.......
GREEN AGENDA is What's for Dinner ....hehehehe
Right Redpaw. :D :D

[Redpaw]

YEAH DAN, !!

Standing up for another MINER :D , and hopefully getting pictures.

Yes Denise, it is always okay for you to talk to me inplace of someone else, any news or comments are always welcome. B)

Green Agenda was so thick last night at the meeting that they wanted the parks and rec to hand cultivate the european beach grass from the beach !, and then recommended that no equipment be used whatsoever.....So your asking what was my comment to that?

I stated ( feeling they are screwing me too for shovels ) that I wanted to see the TRIPLING of HAND CULTIVATION in acreage for Beach Grass removal.

:D :D :D I fell on the floor when they were forced to write that comment on the large tablet as a comment. Mess with me and I get OBNOXIOUS in ideas.

I can't wait to hear about Quinten, I want I want I want !!



:D :D :D I'm like a 3 year old drunk on lollipop buzz.

[CP]

YES!
The MRT had a very positive influence on Quentin's "meeting" ...... ;) B)
We were under the impression that this would be the meeting to hear the FS decision....... <_< Turns out that this was a meeting to negotiate with Quentin as to what the decision should be! B) ;) :P
So we sat there and hammered out the details concerning the alternatives concerning the EA.
I have to take off for a bit, will be back shortly to tell the whole story.
Here is a pic of the MRT members that were present.
From left to right is me, then Quentin, Anita, and Brian.
Be back later...... sorry guys.

CP of the MRT

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[Quilomene John]

Right On,
That's GREAT NEWS! You all still have to be vigilant, as I'm sure you will be. It is a good feeling to know that the USFS knows somebody is watchin' them! QJ :D

[Redpaw]

Damn FINE LOOKING GROUP !!

I'd be Proud to stand with you anyday.

The sun is out today for the first time in a long time here in Oregon, I'm gone for the day....

Tips Hat, bids adieu....

RP

[CP]

Okay, sorry I didn't get back in here yesterday but ended up working all day. <_<

We had a great day at Quentin's meeting.
I was a bit late because it was a three hour ride and it started at 10 am.
When I arrived at the meeting and entered the one room at the Lake George Community Center, Quentin stood up and held up both his arms and announced, "This is Dan Schaefer from the MRT." That wasn't quite what I had in mind but ........ :D
Actually, Quentin and Anita told me afterwards that the meeting was VERY heated before I arrived.
There were 6 FS employees seated around a long table with Quetin, Anita, and Brian sitting on one side.
As I joined the table, I plopped my happy self in an open chair right next to Sarah Mayben (District Ranger) and Ron Baer (one of the two FS Mineral Officers for the state). :P ;) :D
I just listened at first because I missed the first 40 mins. As I listened, I quickly figured out that this was a negotiation between Quentin and the FS as to the 3 alternatives put forth in the EA, not a decision notice. :o

Over the next 3 hours or so the alternatives were discussed.
The first positve effect the MRT had was that the meeting from this point was very civil.
I don't know if that was it, but I did announce shortly after I arrived that "I am here representing a group of small scale miners from across the country who are concerned with what is going on in this district." :P
At any rate we pretty much breezed over #1 as it seemed ridiculous to even address it, at which point Quentin stated that of all three of the alternatives he would like to review #3.
I would like to say at this point that the FS was listening and taking our input as miners to modify the alternatives. VERY REFRESHING!
I have talked with Ron on the phone several times and he has always been very upfront with me and he said he used to prospect for gold himself.
As the different pieces of #3 were discussed, there were several concessions in Quentin's favor.
Removed or altered in the bond amount
1. Hazmat will be removed.
2. Contract prep will be removed
3. Long term monitering costs will be removed
4. Earth moving estimates will be adjusted to local rates that Quentin must demonstrate by local bid
5. Goshawk mitigation will be removed and the Goshawk mitigation will be re-evaluated "if" and "when" a Goshawk shows up on "public land" only ( private land is close to the area also)
6. Seed amount per acre to be ruduced and miner may choose seed mix and the FS will analyze seed samples at no cost.
7. Well and septic will be removed.

Doh! Dang it! A skier locked their keys in the car, back shortly..........

Sorry folks..........CP <_<
To be continued......... :P

[CP]

On with the story…..

All the alterations were great but…… <_<
There were some comments made that have me concerned, Sarah kept saying that she was afraid of what the Sierra Club might do after her decision. She brought this statement up two or three times while she talked about the signage on the claim and how to deal with human waste at the claim. So my comment was “So what you’re telling us is that you’re willing to overlook Quentin’s statutory right to develop his minerals because you are worried the Sierra Club will sue the FS. That is unreasonable to this miner!”
That comment didn’t come up again….. :)
I also made the comment that the FS is directed to foster and encourage in a fair and unbiased manner and that the best way to achieve this is to secure the willingness of small scale miners to work with the FS. Then I explained that the great majority of small scale miners want to and are willing to comply, but have difficulty trying to determine how to, and when they question the FS they are often mislead!
Then I brought up the fact that this is a perfect opportunity for the FS to work with and educate the general public as I reminded them of the MRT and our determination to educate the public. I said we have a lot of attention focused here!….

Another comment of concern is that Sarah alleges that all or some of the prior approvals on plans has been given in error….. <_<
For what period she didn’t specify but it sounded like several years at least…….
The reasoning behind this comment is, apparently any proposed plan of operation that is submitted for more than one year must have an environmental assessment (EA) which includes using Bacon Davis estimates. Nepa requires the EA and the Fair Labor Standards Act dictates the use of the Bacon Davis cost estimates.
I am inclined to believe the FS on this, they usually know those kind of regs…. <_<

So what we learned is that for small scale miners, you don’t want to file a Plan of Operation for more than one year at a time……. :D

The FS also stated on the record that the water rights are the claimants and the only regulation is on the discharge of the water used into the stream, and that is by the state….. YEAH!!!!! :D B)
The FS also stated on record they have no authority to enforce any county or state regulation but only that they may find the miner in non-compliance with the approved plan.

The first decision notice should come soon. At that point we the citizens may appeal under 215. Quentin will be able to submit changes he wants for the last time and then the final decision notice will be released and then Quentin may appeal under 251.

We the citizens have 45 days to appeal the first decision notice and then there is another 45 days for Quentin’s appeal after the final notice.(I think I got this right)


After the meeting Sarah Mayben, Ron Baer, and John Nuebert (performed the SUD) all walked over and introduced themselves to me and thanked me for coming. (Hope I spelled their names right) :D
I didn’t get the names of the other three FS employees that were present, but I’m sure Quentin will let us know who they were.


That is pretty much it.
Quentin and Anita felt the MRT’s presence was very positive and helped to keep the meeting on a civil tone. :D
As we sat around and discussed the proceedings after ward Quentin said this is the nicest the FS has treated him in the 5+ years he has been dealing with them……. :) ;)

Time will tell just how much changes in the end, but we will be waiting and watching…… :)

CP of the MRT

Thank you Redpaw! We are damn proud to have you standing with us! :D ;) You're the one taking the pic right!? :P

[CP]

Oh yea, forgot to say that I gave Sarah, Ron and John a personal invite to the rally..... ;) :)

CP

[Quilomene John]

Hey all,
I just received my" Decision Notice and Finding of No Significant Impact for the Dreamtime Mining Operation"!

Overall it looks pretty good, especially when compared to where this was heading a couple of months ago. The limited overnight stays, and the reclamation bond ammount still seem to be problem areas, and might require an appeal of those requirements.

Lets kick this around and present a unified front should such appeal become a necessity! QJ ;)

[Redpaw]

Does that mean that mine will be here tomorrow?.....I haven't seen a thing from them since submitting my response.

[Quilomene John]

Hey all,
I slept on the Decision Notice, and these possible appeal worthy questions come to mind:

1. Is the reclamation bond consistent with the per acre bond fees Logging Companies are required to post?

2. Are the reclamation standards the same for surface disturbance due to Logging as for other mines in the District? And is this same standard applied to the Dreamtime Mine?

3. The limitation to "No more than 60 overnight stays per year" is inconsistent with
U.S. Case Law (Lex-Waggoner, and Shumway etc)

4. What limitations are commonly imposed on watchmen staying overnight on Logging Operations pertaining to Forest Service Timber Sales?

5. Since the mine is adjacent to a National Forest "Mainline" Road, will any future Goshawk Nesting Activity within 600 ft. of said road necessitate closure to mechanized activity during "Critical Time Periods"?

These questions come to mind, so I figured posting them would spark some thought and discussion!.....QJ <_<

[CP]

Haven't received mine yet........ <_<
Did get to talk with Quentin a bit about the notice.

Don't know about #1 yet.

On #2- The FS is claiming that they have been doing the approvals wrong for some unspecified period....(Quentin is the first miner to have the Bacon Davis estimates used for this level of activity!)

Now this gets into the conflict of intrests thing...... Sarah Mayben is now forbiden to make any decision on certain claims as she is related to the owners or friends with the owners of certain claims.
Quentin tells me that these just happen to be the same people who currently have those approved plans to operate now, that have apparently been given in error..... :(
How many, who, and when I don't know..... sorry

Quentin should be in soon to post some more info.....

#3- Think you are exactly right on that one too John.

#4- Don't know on this one either....

#5- They didn't keep their word on this one.... Sarah told us all at the meeting that she would put in the wording..."ON PUBLIC LAND ONLY!"
(There is private land next to the Dreamtime claim.)
She will be called on that one, that wording needs to be included.....very important!
Don't think they can close that road if the Goshawk nest within the 600'.
We could argue that the road obviously doesn't bother it if it nests there while the road is used daily..... :)

The earth moving will still be adjusted also...Quentin just needs to submit the local estimates.

Thanks for the your thoughts John, GOOD ONES!

Who knows something about the logging...... :)
And why didn't I get mine dang it! <_<
Adding to list for phone calls on the morrow....

CP

[Quilomene John]

Hey all,
I was wondering if anyone else had received their "Notice of Decision" packet from District Ranger Mayben?

I got to thinking that I responded via snail mail due to irregularities in the E-mail situation at the time. I wonder if electronic submissions do not get the same reply procedure?

It is hard to brainstorm some appeal questions if we don't all have notices! Not
paranoid yet, but keeping my options open........QJ <_<