Prospecting, Government definitions |
Prospecting, Government definitions |
Jan 3 2007, 01:01 PM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
For those of you wondering exactly what "prospecting" would be defined as..............
Here is Colorado state gov's definition. QUOTE 34-32-117 (2). (12) "Prospecting" means the act of searching for or investigating a mineral deposit. "Prospecting" includes, but is not limited to, sinking shafts, tunneling, drilling core and bore holes and digging pits or cuts and other works for the purpose of extracting samples prior to commencement of development or extraction operations, and the building of roads, access ways, and other facilities related to such work. The term does not include those activities which cause no or very little surface disturbance, such as airborne surveys and photographs, use of instruments or devices which are hand carried or otherwise transported over the surface to make magnetic, radioactive, or other tests and measurements, boundary or claim surveying, location work, or other work which causes no greater land disturbance than is caused by ordinary lawful use of the land by persons not prospecting. The term also does not include any single activity which results in the disturbance of a single block of land totaling one thousand six hundred square feet or less of the land's surface, not to exceed two such disturbances per acre; except that the cumulative total of such disturbances will not exceed five acres statewide in any prospecting operation extending over twenty-four consecutive months. CP This post has been edited by ColoradoProspector: Jan 4 2007, 05:41 PM -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Jan 4 2007, 06:11 PM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Hey All!
I just edited the title of this thread to include not just Colorado's, but several governmental definitions on the books that apply............. So lets see what the BLM (USDI/MINING AUTHORITY) says....... QUOTE 43CFR3505 Sec. 3505.10 What is a prospecting permit? (a) A prospecting permit gives you the exclusive right to prospect on and explore lands available for leasing under this part to determine if a valuable deposit exists of: (1) Phosphate; (2) Sodium; (3) Potassium; (4) Sulphur; (5) Gilsonite; or (6) A hardrock mineral. (b) Prospecting permits are not available for asphalt. © You may remove only material needed to demonstrate the existence of a valuable mineral deposit. Sec. 3505.11 Do I need a prospecting permit to collect mineral specimens for non-commercial purposes? No. You may collect mineral specimens for hobby, recreation, scientific, research or similar purposes without a prospecting permit. However, the surface management agency may require a use permit. BLM's regulations for collecting mineral specimens are at part 8365 of this title. Interesting...........How about a "Wilderness area"? QUOTE 43CFR3823 Sec. 3823.1 Prospecting within National Forest Wilderness for the purpose of gathering information about mineral resources. (a) The provisions of the Wilderness Act do not prevent any activity, including prospecting, within National Forest Wilderness for the purpose of gathering information about mineral or other resources if such activity is conducted in a manner compatible with the preservation of the wilderness environment. While information gathered by prospecting concerning mineral resources within National Forest Wilderness may be utilized in connection with the location of valuable mineral deposits which may be discovered through such activity and which may be open to such location, attention is directed to the fact that no claim may be located after midnight, December 31, 1983, and no valid discovery may be made after that time on any location purportedly made before that time. (b) All persons wishing to carry on any activity, including prospecting, for the purpose of gathering information about mineral or other resources on lands within National Forest Wilderness should make inquiry of the officer in charge of the National Forest in which the lands are located concerning the regulations of the Secretary of Agriculture governing surface use of the lands for such activity. Ok, now how about the FS? QUOTE Forest Service Manual FSM2860.5 - Definitions. 1. Prospecting - Delineation of an area in which exploration would follow by gathering indirect evidence of mineral or energy resources. Indirect data gathering techniques include, but are not limited to: conducting geophysical or geochemical surveys, sampling outcrops, geologic mapping, and drilling holes to gather general geologic or stratigraphic information. 2. Exploration - Establishing the location, size, grade, or reserves of a mineral or energy resource by gathering direct evidence of the resource. Direct data gathering techniques may include drilling holes, digging pits, and driving adits and drifts to sample, or test, a known or suspected zone of interest. Forest Service Manual also says.......Oh you will love this one! QUOTE FSM2861 - DETERMINING FOREST SERVICE JURISDICTION. In responding to requests for permission to prospect for minerals or to collect mineral or fossil samples, the first step is to determine whether the proposed activity falls within Forest Service jurisdiction. 2861.1 - General Criteria. The Forest Service authorizes various methods of preliminary prospecting and mineral sample collection on National Forest System lands if no other authority exists, and if the activity does not conflict with the rights of: A holder of a mining claim; a holder of a U.S. Department of the Interior (USDI) lease, permit, or license; or the owner of reserved or outstanding minerals. A separate authorization is not required for activities authorized by the General Mining Laws (FSM 2810); activities authorized by USDI (FSM 2820); or land use activity conducted pursuant to reserved and outstanding mineral rights (FSM 2830). 2861.2 - Allowable Activities Under Forest Service Jurisdiction. Allowable activities include, but are not limited to, surface mapping, blasting, excavation, sampling, and collecting with hand tools or hand-carried motorized equipment; seismic, gravity, heat flow, resistivity, and other geophysical surveys; and geochemical surveys, such as stream sediment sampling. I like that un'! Next one is pretty good too.....36CFR is FS. QUOTE 36CFR9.2L- Significantly disturbed for purposes of mineral extraction. Land will be considered significantly disturbed for purposes of mineral extraction when there has been surface extraction of commercial amounts of a mineral, or significant amounts of overburden or spoil have been displaced due to the extraction of commercial amounts of a mineral. Extraction of commercial amounts is defined as the removal of ore from a claim in the normal course of business of extraction for processing or marketing. It does not encompass the removal of ore for purposes of testing, experimentation, examination, or pre-production activities. HEHEHE I like that un' too......... What do ya' think? CP -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Jan 4 2007, 06:44 PM
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Rock Bar! Group: Members Posts: 411 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Kansas City,Kansas Member No.: 48 |
Well I think Im in bussiness. Joe
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Jan 5 2007, 06:09 AM
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russau Group: Members Posts: 2,841 Joined: 4-December 03 From: st.louis missouri Member No.: 43 |
reading this didnt help my cabin fever one bit!
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Jan 5 2007, 01:36 PM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Glad you guys like this thread....I just happened to have a couple more.
These two are from the United States Code..... QUOTE 30USC21a TITLE 30--MINERAL LANDS AND MINING CHAPTER 2--MINERAL LANDS AND REGULATIONS IN GENERAL Sec. 21a. National mining and minerals policy; ``minerals'' defined; execution of policy under other authorized programs The Congress declares that it is the continuing policy of the Federal Government in the national interest to foster and encourage private enterprise in (1) the development of economically sound and stable domestic mining, minerals, metal and mineral reclamation industries, (2) the orderly and economic development of domestic mineral resources, reserves, and reclamation of metals and minerals to help assure satisfaction of industrial, security and environmental needs, (3) mining, mineral, and metallurgical research, including the use and recycling of scrap to promote the wise and efficient use of our natural and reclaimable mineral resources, and (4) the study and development of methods for the disposal, control, and reclamation of mineral waste products, and the reclamation of mined land, so as to lessen any adverse impact of mineral extraction and processing upon the physical environment that may result from mining or mineral activities. For the purpose of this section ``minerals'' shall include all minerals and mineral fuels including oil, gas, coal, oil shale and uranium. It shall be the responsibility of the Secretary of the Interior to carry out this policy when exercising his authority under such programs as may be authorized by law other than this section. QUOTE 16USC478 TITLE 16--CONSERVATION CHAPTER 2--NATIONAL FORESTS SUBCHAPTER I--ESTABLISHMENT AND ADMINISTRATION Sec. 478. Egress or ingress of actual settlers; prospecting Nothing in sections 473 to 478, 479 to 482 and 551 of this title shall be construed as prohibiting the egress or ingress of actual settlers residing within the boundaries of national forests, or from crossing the same to and from their property or homes; and such wagon roads and other improvements may be constructed thereon as may be necessary to reach their homes and to utilize their property under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by the Secretary of Agriculture. Nor shall anything in such sections prohibit any person from entering upon such national forests for all proper and lawful purposes, including that of prospecting, locating, and developing the mineral resources thereof. Such persons must comply with the rules and regulations covering such national forests. Now the next one is again from the FS/36CFR....... You will note that there seems to be a conflict of their own directives to me.........you see it too? "non motorized hand sluice"...... Well keep readin......then read FSM 2861.2 posted above again.......then you decide. QUOTE Sec. 228.4 Plan of operations--notice of intent--requirements. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(1) of this section, a notice of intent to operate is required from any person proposing to conduct operations which might cause significant disturbance of surface resources. Such notice of intent to operate shall be submitted to the District Ranger having jurisdiction over the area in which the operations will be conducted. Each notice of intent to operate shall provide information sufficient to identify the area involved, the nature of the proposed operations, the route of access to the area of operations, and the method of transport. (1) A notice of intent to operate is not required for: (i) Operations which will be limited to the use of vehicles on existing public roads or roads used and maintained for National Forest System purposes; (ii) Prospecting and sampling which will not cause significant surface resource disturbance and will not involve removal of more than a reasonable amount of mineral deposit for analysis and study which generally might include searching for and occasionally removing small mineral samples or specimens, gold panning, metal detecting, non- motorized hand sluicing, using battery operated dry washers, and collecting of mineral specimens using hand tools; (iii) Marking and monumenting a mining claim; (iv) Underground operations which will not cause significant surface resource disturbance; (v) Operations, which in their totality, will not cause surface resource disturbance which is substantially different than that caused by other users of the National Forest System who are not required to obtain a Forest Service special use authorization, contract, or other written authorization; (vi) Operations which will not involve the use of mechanized earthmoving equipment, such as bulldozers or backhoes, or the cutting of trees, unless those operations otherwise might cause a significant disturbance of surface resources; No wonder some folks call it the forest "circus" Okay the next 3 were pulled out of the 43CFR's (BLM)........ QUOTE 43CFR3802 Subpart 3802_Exploration and Mining, Wilderness Review Program Sec. 3802.1-2 When not required. A plan of operations under this subpart is not required for-- (a) Searching for and occasionally removing mineral samples or specimens; (b) Operating motorized vehicles over open use areas and trails as defined in 43 CFR part 8340 so long as the vehicles conform to the operating regulations and vehicle standards contained in that subpart; © Maintaining or making minor improvements of existing access routes, bridges, landing areas for aircraft, or other facilities for access where such improvements or maintenance shall not alter the alignment, width, gradient, size or character of such facilities; or (d) Making geological, radiometric, geochemical, geophysical or other tests and measurements using instruments, devices, or drilling equipment which are transported without using mechanized earth moving equipment or tracked vehicles. QUOTE 43CFR6300 Subpart 6302_Use of Wilderness Areas, Prohibited Acts, and Penalties Sec. 6302.15 When and how may I collect or disturb natural resources such as rocks and plants in wilderness areas? (a) You may remove or disturb natural resources for non-commercial purposes in wilderness areas, including prospecting, provided-- (1) You do it in a manner that preserves the wilderness environment, using no more than non-motorized hand tools and causing minimal surface disturbance; and (2)(i) Your proposed activity conforms to the applicable management plan; or (ii) You have a BLM authorization if one is required by statute or regulation. (b) Where BLM allows campfires in a wilderness, you may gather a reasonable amount of wood for use in your campfire. QUOTE 43CFR3800 Subpart 3809_Surface Management Sec. 3809.5 How does BLM define certain terms used in this subpart? As used in this subpart, the term: Casual use means activities ordinarily resulting in no or negligible disturbance of the public lands or resources. For example-- (1) Casual use generally includes the collection of geochemical, rock, soil, or mineral specimens using hand tools; hand panning; or non- motorized sluicing. It may include use of small portable suction dredges. It also generally includes use of metal detectors, gold spears and other battery-operated devices for sensing the presence of minerals, and hand and battery-operated drywashers. Operators may use motorized vehicles for casual use activities provided the use is consistent with the regulations governing such use (part 8340 of this title), off-road vehicle use designations contained in BLM land-use plans, and the terms of temporary closures ordered by BLM. (2) Casual use does not include use of mechanized earth-moving equipment, truck-mounted drilling equipment, motorized vehicles in areas when designated as closed to ``off-road vehicles'' as defined in Sec. 8340.0-5 of this title, chemicals, or explosives. It also does not include ``occupancy'' as defined in Sec. 3715.0-5 of this title or operations in areas where the cumulative effects of the activities result in more than negligible disturbance. Exploration means creating surface disturbance greater than casual use that includes sampling, drilling, or developing surface or underground workings to evaluate the type, extent, quantity, or quality of mineral values present. Exploration does not include activities where material is extracted for commercial use or sale. ****************** Operations means all functions, work, facilities, and activities on public lands in connection with prospecting, exploration, discovery and assessment work, development, extraction, and processing of mineral deposits locatable under the mining laws; reclamation of disturbed areas; and all other reasonably incident uses, whether on a mining claim or not, including the construction of roads, transmission lines, pipelines, and other means of access across public lands for support facilities. Sorry if the cabin fever is gettin worse guys....... CP -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Jan 27 2007, 12:28 PM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
No more comments/questions yet?!
Okay, I'll post a couple questions in......... Regulations can not be enforced on citizens in place of laws....right? So what are the regulations for? And how are they used? Well it could be that if these regs are not used to regulate the citizens that they are used to dictate how the government and it's emplyees do regulate the citizens and or our public lands. Let's see.......government employees are paid with our tax dollars. So it makes sense that how they do their job and with what authority would be dictated by..........by what? Ah yes.....the CFR's! The "C"ode of "F"ederal "R"egulations is in fact what contains the do's and don'ts for the government employee's job! Which are backed by the laws as written in the USC (United States Code) The regs may not be enforcable on us as citizens, but they are very enforcable to the government's employees who are directed through laws and regulations to know and use these regulations when doing their daily job duties. Not only are they directed (as requirement of the job) to know and use these regulations, (cfr's, fsm, fsh....etc) they are also required by laws/regs to use them in conjunction with one another. IE.......43cfr (blm primarily) MUST BE USED in all mining decisions FS makes. But wait ....36cfr is for FS right? Yes, 36cfr is for FS lands. And anyone who has actually read through 36cfr228 for mining activities on NF lands can plainly see that this subpart alone is not only vague but not actually about mining at all........just how to mitigate against it. The parts they don't want you to know are that they are required (as government employees.....FSH, FSM) to do certain things, use certain regs, and FOSTER/ENCOURAGE certain rights! Not prevent them!!!! Another notable fact in the regulations are many "inter-agency agreements" (quoted in many cfr's) as not only part of the requirement of the job.....but also used to present the use of the regs by the officials in a "fair and consistent manner"! Just because a law/regualtion/code isn't enforcable upon you as a citizen doesn't mean it isn't enforcable some where, some how, on some overzealous misinformed rights stomper wearing a uniform! Knowing more of what ANY LAWS/REGS/CODES say pertaining to the activity in question will better for the persons involved! Want to look up some more on your own?......... Here is a great link to access all USC, CFR, PLO .....etc GPO Access website Guess that was more than a "couple" questions! CP -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Nov 13 2008, 10:09 AM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Thought there would be more discussions on this thread considering the inforamtion.
Anyone have any thoughts, questions or comments? Or did this thread totally blow the mind? -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Nov 22 2008, 10:22 PM
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Shovel Buster! Group: Members Posts: 120 Joined: 8-February 07 From: Kentucky Member No.: 978 |
CP, you ,ake some very interesting points in this post. The difference between regs and laws are very important for us to understand. Thanks for that great post. Heavy Pans, faaus No more comments/questions yet?! Okay, I'll post a couple questions in......... Regulations can not be enforced on citizens in place of laws....right? So what are the regulations for? And how are they used? Well it could be that if these regs are not used to regulate the citizens that they are used to dictate how the government and it's emplyees do regulate the citizens and or our public lands. Let's see.......government employees are paid with our tax dollars. So it makes sense that how they do their job and with what authority would be dictated by..........by what? Ah yes.....the CFR's! The "C"ode of "F"ederal "R"egulations is in fact what contains the do's and don'ts for the government employee's job! Which are backed by the laws as written in the USC (United States Code) The regs may not be enforcable on us as citizens, but they are very enforcable to the government's employees who are directed through laws and regulations to know and use these regulations when doing their daily job duties. Not only are they directed (as requirement of the job) to know and use these regulations, (cfr's, fsm, fsh....etc) they are also required by laws/regs to use them in conjunction with one another. IE.......43cfr (blm primarily) MUST BE USED in all mining decisions FS makes. But wait ....36cfr is for FS right? Yes, 36cfr is for FS lands. And anyone who has actually read through 36cfr228 for mining activities on NF lands can plainly see that this subpart alone is not only vague but not actually about mining at all........just how to mitigate against it. The parts they don't want you to know are that they are required (as government employees.....FSH, FSM) to do certain things, use certain regs, and FOSTER/ENCOURAGE certain rights! Not prevent them!!!! Another notable fact in the regulations are many "inter-agency agreements" (quoted in many cfr's) as not only part of the requirement of the job.....but also used to present the use of the regs by the officials in a "fair and consistent manner"! Just because a law/regualtion/code isn't enforcable upon you as a citizen doesn't mean it isn't enforcable some where, some how, on some overzealous misinformed rights stomper wearing a uniform! Knowing more of what ANY LAWS/REGS/CODES say pertaining to the activity in question will better for the persons involved! Want to look up some more on your own?......... Here is a great link to access all USC, CFR, PLO .....etc GPO Access website Guess that was more than a "couple" questions! CP |
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Nov 25 2008, 02:14 PM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Thanks Faaus,
Seemed like all those quotes kinda fit here for "prospecting", even if it does make a long read. Didn't seem that long when I posted it all....whew. What else should be added here? -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Oct 15 2009, 08:13 AM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 7,188 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 4 |
Great information Dan!
How about that it would be a great reference to print off and have in the field. Some of us cant quote laws and regs as good as others, but know its our right. That way if any officials confront you about your activities, you can show them the print off of their own handbooks/manuals, CFRs and the law. It is their job to already know this information, but you would be surprised how many dont. There is even a directive in the handbooks that tells them as employees, they must know and use the pertanent mining laws, regulations etc when working with mining claims and the owners. Its hard to argue with kind words and knowledgeable information, but they may try. Everyone can also find more details on the CFRs, FSH(forest service handbook) and the USCs(United States code) in the "Valuable References" section of the forums here. Stay safe out there everyone, and happy prospecting! -------------------- Education is the key to the future,
and participation opens the door to opportunity. Discover your prospecting independence & success! ColoradoProspector.com Owner/Webmaster Core team member ♥ |
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Oct 16 2009, 07:45 AM
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Shovel Buster! Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 30-December 07 From: albuquerque n.m. Member No.: 3,582 |
Ok here is a question. If I'm dredging on my claim how much material can I move before the FS/BLM requires me to file a POO or NOI.
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Oct 16 2009, 07:59 AM
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russau Group: Members Posts: 2,841 Joined: 4-December 03 From: st.louis missouri Member No.: 43 |
Ok here is a question. If I'm dredging on my claim how much material can I move before the FS/BLM requires me to file a POO or NOI. they cant require you to file at all! remember the 1866/1872 mining laws!know what it says for your own protection and to keep from help setting a precident! |
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Oct 16 2009, 09:37 AM
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Shovel Buster! Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 30-December 07 From: albuquerque n.m. Member No.: 3,582 |
Thanks Russ. I very seldom ask a question here I don't already know the answer to. What I wanted to know was what CFR it was under since the FS doesn't have a clue most of the time. There are too
many CFR's to memorize and besides I have CRS |
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Oct 17 2009, 05:53 AM
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russau Group: Members Posts: 2,841 Joined: 4-December 03 From: st.louis missouri Member No.: 43 |
search the 1866 and the 1872 mining laws. or over on the GPAA site and over on www.49ermike.com they already have a thred going on these laws. also Armidillo mining is selling the 3 DVD set of Hal Anthonys explaination of the 1866 law. i just sent off for it. there is just soooooooo much info in these laws that, just as Denise said, have a copy with you to read/referance from so you get it right and know what your talking about. i carry a binder in my trailer with all my different state laws/permits that i need. if i get questioned/told/ or asked about what im doing, i can easily pull out my binder and show them the facts/truth. but before you open your mouth, know what your talking about to keep from putting your foot in it! most forest /blm employees dont know what the laws are and how it applies to you and i or even to the land. they just know what the wants are from their boss or what theyve been told by some green agenda person!
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Oct 17 2009, 06:12 AM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 7,188 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 4 |
No reason to send them to another site Russ. We have all that information right here in the CP forums. Have for a long time now.
You can find all that kind of info in the "Land Rights, Laws and References " section of the forums. Best of all its free, and open for all to read here! Im sure Dan will be able to help you out on that one Gary. Hes great that way! -------------------- Education is the key to the future,
and participation opens the door to opportunity. Discover your prospecting independence & success! ColoradoProspector.com Owner/Webmaster Core team member ♥ |
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Oct 17 2009, 11:20 AM
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Thank you Denise, you are correct too. Most the information being discussed on all these different sites is actually quoted here, and has been discussed here since the conception of the ColoradoProspector club/website nearly 7 years ago. Wow time sure does fly by!
Good thing we can find this info here too, especially for those of us who don't have extra with the economy this year..........! So, even though there may be more responses at other sites.......the actual information needed to read for yourself is here, or can be found easily from here. The number of replies being higher on other threads/sites doesn't mean the information there is any better. Funny, even the researchers posting at other websites see value of posting here too, and seem to be doing at least some, if not alot of their research from here as well. Why not you the people? That is what the ColoradoProspector forums are for......discussions of information that can be read for yourself in truth. Great to see that so many are now following this train of thought too. The authorities work for us the people and what we need to do is read and understand what pertains to our right to prospect/mine! They aren't going to "tell us" how or what we prospect! For NM_Jack's question............Russ stated it right, they can not require you to file either. The NOI is not something I would recommend anyone file as a miner. Unless you'd like the rangers to "determine" if you are creating a "significant resource disturbance" or not. When a POO should be filed is above in the CFR's. All the answers to your questions are in this very thread above your post on page 1. Begining with the first post on Colorado state gov's definition for prospecting, and the CFR's you just asked about too. Just gotta' read it. As a claim owner, this is the kind of info you'll want to read up on and know too, for sure! Basically from what you've said though, using a 2 inch" backpack unit or sluicing a few buckets.....you've got no worries. IMHO If you were to ever begin a large scale operation under POO that did create a significant disturbance, then there is also a Colorado aggregate extraction guideline pdf down load in the thread titled "state permits" that you would want to read over. Hopefully everyone finds this information useful. Good luck out there prospecting everyone! CP -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Feb 21 2010, 11:56 AM
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Diggin' In! Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 26-October 09 From: New Mexico Member No.: 7,040 |
Great info, Thanks to ColoradoProspector.com.
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Feb 21 2010, 12:03 PM
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Diggin' In! Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 26-October 09 From: New Mexico Member No.: 7,040 |
This is old, but I kept it in my computer. CP,If it don't belong here put on the forum elsewhere. Thanks,
PETER W. KARP Forest SupervisorUT METAL DETECTING ON THE NATIONAL FORESTS United States Department of Agriculture Uinta National Forest 88 West l00 North P.O. mx 1428 Provo, Utah 84603 801-342-5100 File Code: 2360 Date: August l0, 2005 Mr. James Foley National Land Rights League P.O. Box 1818 La Pine, OR 97739 Dear Mr. Foley: This letter is in response to your March 27, 2005 email to the USDA.gov Feedback inbox regarding information posted on the Uinta National Forest website about the legality of using metal detectors on National Forest lands. Your email correctly pointed out that metal detecting is a legitimate means of prospecting for gold or other mineral specimens under the 1872 Mining Law. Like other locatable mineral prospecting activities, use of a metal detector in this manner is covered under the Forest Service 36 CFR 228A regulations. Enclosed for your information is an internal information paper entitled Metal Detecting on the National Forests that discusses the general requirements for using metal detectors for both prospecting and recreational purposes. The statements on the Uinta website reflect requirements for the recreational use of metal detectors and the concerns for protecting archaeological resources on the Uinta National Forest, We are aware of the statutory right to prospect on National Forest System lands under the l872 Mining Law and have updated our webpage to reflect the legitimacy of using a metal detector for that purpose. We apologize for any confusion caused by the omission of a reference to the Mining Law. Thank you for helping us to make our website clearer for persons such as your self who are interested in the use of metal detectors for prospecting on National Forest lands. Sincerely, PETER W. KARP Forest Supervisor Enclosure cc Jack Troyer, R4 -- . Regional Forester METAL DETECTING ON THE NATIONAL PORESTS Metal detecting is a legitimate means of locating gold or other mineral specimens and can be an effective prospecting tool for locating larger mineral deposits. This activity can also be conducted as a recreational activity locating lost coins, jewelry or other incidental metallic items of no historical value. Prospecting using a metal detector can be conducted under the General Mining Laws and is covered under the Forest Service 36 CFR 22~A locatable mineral regulations for lands open to mineral entry. Metal detecting for treasure trove or lost items such as coins and jewelry is managed as a non minerals-related recreation activity. It is Forest Service policy that the casual collection of rocks and mineral samples is allowed on the National Forests. Prospecting using metal detectors is a low surface impact activity that involves digging small holes rarely more than six inches deep. Normally, prospecting with a metal detector does not require a notice of intent or written authorization since it only involves searching for and occasionally removing small rock samples or mineral specimens (36 CFR 228 .4(a)). Metal detectors may be used on public land in areas that do not contain or would not reasonably he expected to contain archaeological or historical resources. Normally, developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed recreation sites are open to recreational metal detecting unless there arc archaeological or historical resources present. In such cases, forest supervisors are authorized to close the area to metal detecting and the closure would he posted at the site. Such closure notices are not always practical in undeveloped areas, and federal agencies have not identified every archaeological site on public lands. It is possible therefore, that you may encounter such archaeological remains that have not yet been documented or an area that is not closed even though it does indeed contain such remains. Archaeological remains on public land arc protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them undisturbed and notify a Forest Service office. The purpose of the restrictions to metal detecting on public lands is to protect historical remains. The Code of Federal Regulations, (36 CFR 261.9) states, The Following are prohibited: (g) Digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying, or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, or property. (h) Removing any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, property. The Archaeological Resources Protection Act (ARPA, 16 U.S.C. 470cc:smile: also prohibits these activities, stating, No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity a pursuant to a permit... ARPA exempts the collection of coins for personal use if the coins are not in an archaeological context. in some cases, historically significant coins and other metallic artifacts may be part of an historical-period archaeological site, in which case they would he considered archaeological resources and arc protected under law. These laws apply to all National Forest System land and do not vary from state to state. Four forms of metal detector use are recognized. I. Searching for treasure trove: Treasure trove is defined as money, gems, or precious metals in the form of coin, plate, or bullion that has been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovering it later. This activity requires a Special Use Permit under The Act of June 4, 1897 (16 U.S.C. 551). Forest Service Manual 2724.4 states allow persons to search for buried treasure on National Forest System lands, but protect the rights of the public regarding ownership of, or claims on, any recovered property. 2. Prospecting: Using a metal detector to locate gold or other mineral deposits is an allowed activity under the General Mining laws and is subject to the 36 CFR 228A regulations, A Notice of Intent (36 CFR 228.4(a)) is normally not required for prospecting using a metal detector. A Notice of Intent (NOl) is required for any prospecting which might cause disturbance of surface resources. A plan of operation is required for any prospecting that will likely cause significant disturbance of surface resources. Normal metal detecting does not cause surface impacts that require either a NOI or a Plan of Operation. People who use metal detectors for prospecting should bear in mind that many of the mineralized lands within the National Forests and open to mineral entry have been claimed by others who have sole right to prospect and develop the mineral resources found on the mining claim. A search of County and Bureau of Land Management records should he made prior to prospecting to determine if an area has been claimed. Normally, any gold found can he removed and kept. Lf the removal of the gold, rocks, or minerals might cause disturbance of surface resources, beyond digging a small shallow hole, an NOI may be required. 3. Searchjng for historic or prehistoric artifacts: Using a metal detector to locate archaeological or historical remains is subject to the Antiquities Act of 1906 and the Archeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA) as amended and requires a special use permit. Such permits are granted for scientific research only, however, there are many ways to get involved with organized, scientific research. See below for ways to use metal detectors for this purpose under sanctioned public archaeology programs. 4. Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching for lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal Regulations or ARPA. Metal detecting in the National Forests is recognized as a legitimate prospecting method under the General Mining Laws and also as a recreational activity for the casual collection of rocks and minerals. This policy does not permit the use of metal detectors in or around known or undiscovered cultural or historic sites in order to protect our valuable, non-renewable historical resources. However, recognizing the universal interest in archaeology and history and the vast public knowledge of such resources, the USDA Forest Service sponsors a public archaeology program through which metal detector enthusiasts and others can help. Passport In Time (PIT) is a national program inviting the public to work with agency archaeologists on historic preservation projects. We have done numerous projects through PIT in cooperation with metal detecting clubs and individuals. The cooperation has been beneficial for both the detectorists and agencys archaeologists. Locating archaeological sites becomes a joint endeavor and we learn a great deal. If you would like more information on this program, call 1-800-281-9176 or visit http://www.oasstjortintime.com |
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Feb 23 2010, 03:23 PM
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#19
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Great info, Thanks to ColoradoProspector.com. Thank you bottledigger, we try very hard to keep valid information for folks to reference to when needed. Glad you find the information useful and hopefully many more do too. Nothing beats having knowledge in the field to help get the job done! The above post is ok and we'll leave it in this thread. Thanks for posting that up. I'd like to point out to everyone reading this, even though the author had good intentions and is quite correct about detecting under the mining laws.......as a bona fide prospector in the field. But....... many of todays legal problems or issues stem from the combining of the words prospecting with recreational. Although one can be a recreationalist prospecting for gold say, but a recreationalist outside of a reacreational area proclaiming to be a "prospector" while on "vacation" or "camping" under the mining law just doesn't cut the mustard in the field. Matter of fact that is exactly what the government is trying to deliniate and regulate in most situations...... the recreationalists. Where as, a bona fide prospector in the field has a much different vocabulary, knowledge, and actions used in the field. IE, they are not "vacationing" or "recreating", but are in fact "prospecting" (an actual step of filing claims and mining), as a bona fide prospector in his actions and acceptence of his own responibility in the field. Recreationalists often do not have, nor care to learn, the laws and behaviors of a bona fide prospector......Thus we have many of today's "problem issues" and quite frankly if the prospector doesn't wish to learn or accept the responibility as they should be, then they are really better off in an actual recreational area with extra guidance/regulations. This FS website page mentioned above shows exactly what I'm describing (officials attempt to regulate recreationalists). If you look it's not the National Forest Service's main webpage, it's the Uinta forest page. BLM websites are set up much the same in there is a national page, then states or regions that all have their own pages as well. Colorado's BLM Royal Gorge page has many regulations for the "Arkansas headwater recreational area" for example. Those regulations applied to the "Arkansas headwater recreational area" do not apply generally across the board for any other BLM lands, those national laws are already present for the bona fide prospector in the field. I don't personally know details on the Uinta forest area but many of these webpages (like Colorado BLM RG field office), are geared towards these very high impact use areas and they are regulating multiple "recreational uses" for those high impact areas. I've also found that many of these are withdrawn from mineral entry too, so you can still prospect there but not file new claims. Not to say there are not claims within those areas because there very often are. Well hope I've not rambled on too much but I wanted to show the point between actual laws and extra regulation due to recreational high use areas. CP -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Aug 12 2012, 01:03 PM
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#20
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Rock Bar! Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 5-April 11 From: Deming, New Mexico Member No.: 15,619 |
they cant require you to file at all! remember the 1866/1872 mining laws!know what it says for your own protection and to keep from help setting a precident! I just visited the Fairplay FS office. They were pleasant enough, but I got a handout that (at the bottom) says "Anything other than panning; i.e. any activities that might cause significant disturbance of surface resources, falls into another category and requires a notice of intent with the Forest Service." (emphasis there's) Can I just quote the 1872 Mining Act and keep shoveling gravel in to my highbanker? Somehow don't think that will satisfy the Federales. Has anyone on this forum successfully argued the point with a ranger? As for the BLM, apparently, all they have to do is declare an area:ie Cache Creek, as 'acquired land' and its magically innured from the Mining Act of 1872 (see the BLM Royal Gorge site). I think it could be argued as a tenant of law that regulations do not trump laws. Regulations cannot be used to negate or as lawyers say "vacate" a law. It's an end run around laws that were meant to protect the rights of citizens with the intent of restricting those very rights. Laws derive their power from the Constitution, regulations derive their power from bureaucrats. Sorry about the rant, but until I can get the facts through my thick head, I'll put off buying that highbanker/combo. -------------------- EVIL GENIUS. JUST ASK ME.
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Aug 12 2012, 06:31 PM
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#21
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russau Group: Members Posts: 2,841 Joined: 4-December 03 From: st.louis missouri Member No.: 43 |
before you attempt ot throw the 1866/1872 mining laws in their face when stopped, make surewho owns the property your working! public land/state land/county/city land! the 1866/1872 mining laws only pertain to the public lands, not state/county/city. on these grounds the law is different!i keep a folder with the laws that pertain to where im at and in there i have my permits also. this folder is sorta thick cause i travel around to many states and need to have my paperwork in order if/when stoipped. its amazing how when they see how organized my paperwork is, they tend to back off!
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Aug 13 2012, 07:34 PM
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#22
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Hi Scratch,
The FS is not even authorized to regulate mining (see 36cfr scope) and on the Arkansas headwater recreational area those rules are specific only to that area which has been withdrawn from mineral entry. The rest of the states BLM land does not have those special rules like Cache Creek and the Arkansas river do. Here is a thread about Colorado dredging and highbanking that I've explained a bit more about the Arkansas headwater rec area's special designation. The FS officials will often say or even put out print or website information that is completely false and many times illegal according to the actual law. Even though I've heard absurd things from the very same office's volunteer staff like......if you don't see any fences you should be able to prospect. But yes I've challenged rangers in that office (including the past head ranger) as well as other district head rangers and backed them off their personal opinions to find the law. Do they go by the laws I've showed them in the past? .......... Who knows?! Good job digging in for the right information , I think you've got wind of how the FS officials will "help" find the right stuff. -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Feb 1 2015, 09:53 AM
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#23
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Master Mucker! Group: Members Posts: 2,430 Joined: 6-June 13 From: Falcon, CO Member No.: 82,915 |
Today's thread posted to the Facebook page! Good reading! :)
-------------------- Find Colorado Prospector on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/170314493176558
CP Lifetime Member |
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Mar 16 2017, 12:30 PM
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#24
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Diggin' In! Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 3-March 17 From: Salida CO Member No.: 127,759 |
I'm late to the conversation, but based upon another thread or two out there, I figured I'd better read this one.
I have a couple questions. " While information gathered by prospecting concerning mineral resources within National Forest Wilderness may be utilized in connection with the location of valuable mineral deposits which may be discovered through such activity and which may be open to such location, attention is directed to the fact that no claim may be located after midnight, December 31, 1983, and no valid discovery may be made after that time on any location purportedly made before that time." What does that mean? And then we have this one: "Casual use means activities ordinarily resulting in no or negligible disturbance of the public lands or resources. For example-- (1) Casual use generally includes the collection of geochemical, rock, soil, or mineral specimens using hand tools; hand panning; or non- motorized sluicing. It may include use of small portable suction dredges. It also generally includes use of metal detectors, gold spears and other battery-operated devices for sensing the presence of minerals, and hand and battery-operated drywashers." The last one would suggest that under the definition of casual, a small dredge does not require a permit. That's confusing because the BLM specifically requires a permit for any dredge work at all. Also, all of this seems to revolve around the concept of "A significant amount of surface" changes. Well, has anyone been to Cripple Creek and viewed the mine up there? THAT is significant land damage. In one persons entire lifetime, even with an operation like the Hoffman's on "Gold Rush", that much damage could not be caused very easily. That mine took a century to get that big. So my question would be, who sets these "standards" on what is significant? Some ecologist's would scream over a shovel full, others who are a little more industrial minded wouldn't consider "significant" damage until tree's fall down. Almost the entire of Southern Colorado is built on prior gold mining efforts. Garfield, Monarch, Breckenridge, Maysville, Granite... all these towns are literally built on tailings. And there are a lot more. The Arkansas River is just one long tailings all the way from North Fork all the way down to Pueblo. How can we damage anything with small dredge's when those giant dredge's already destroyed the natural landscape over a hundred years ago? Further, there are no "natural wildlife" in the Arkansas. We destroyed the natural ecology at the same time frame and all the trout that are in that river is bred in Salida. They can't even claim that small dredge work will disturb them because they don't belong here either! Plus it doesn't matter - if we accidentally kill a few fish, well a lot more will replace them by next breeding season. The river is too fast now for catfish because when they dredged it, they also straightened it - the damage is done and now they "mitigate" it, and yet they are clamoring over us? OMG. As an individual, when I leave a site I always back fill, but I dig one heck of a hole. I try to move about ten yards a day by hand. By some people's definition, I am worse than a beaver but I just use a shovel and a pick - I have seem claims with less damage than I do in a day and they have machines. This whole thing is very confusing and there are no specific definitions. -------------------- Michael D. Shelest
OIF Reg Army, BSEE, IEEE "Fallen but not Forgotten" |
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Mar 16 2017, 02:37 PM
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#25
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Rock Bar! Group: Members Posts: 563 Joined: 13-June 15 From: South of Gunnison in Gold Basin, Saguache County Member No.: 120,659 |
The fast answers.....
You can't file a claim on protected wilderness lands after Dec31 1983, all that means. Casual use is a definition used by blm and defined by law having to do with land disturbance I believe. It might be considered casual use to dig at clear creek, cache creek, fairplay public area, point Barr, wilderness areas? or any open space or public access. Special limited rules can apply. Usually these places are withdrawn to new claims. Heck even on your own claim it may be considered casual use if you aren't making a mess? I don't know why that would need a name? Hehe The amount and level of surface damage and eco impact you are causing is up to you to consider as a professional and responsible miner. Every mining situation is different. There are documents and applications and legal channels to follow in that case and blm will be more involved with the claim holder. I am in no way a lawyer haha. Some of this may be my interpretation. -------------------- Level 2 member -12/25/16
Referral code JL697 |
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Mar 16 2017, 05:25 PM
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#26
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Rock Bar! Group: Members Posts: 563 Joined: 13-June 15 From: South of Gunnison in Gold Basin, Saguache County Member No.: 120,659 |
The casual use term is a strange one.
-------------------- Level 2 member -12/25/16
Referral code JL697 |
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Mar 17 2017, 01:57 PM
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#27
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Rock Bar! Group: Members Posts: 898 Joined: 9-January 14 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 116,265 |
I would argue the first clause Olog mentioned about wilderness is not absolute. Some of the individual legislation designating wilderness areas have written into them exemptions such as being able to establish mineral rights (stake a claim) for 20 years after the designation is made.
Although some states and agencies push for permit for dredging, the regulation mentioned is more in line with the law and I would argue the law does not prohibit "motorized sluicing" like it portrays in the regulation either(my personal take). The larger mining operations mentioned are well beyond "casual use" and they are in most cases following proper plans of operations and other requirements. -------------------- |
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Mar 17 2017, 09:35 PM
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#28
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Rock Bar! Group: Members Posts: 563 Joined: 13-June 15 From: South of Gunnison in Gold Basin, Saguache County Member No.: 120,659 |
I've only seen written approval needed for some dredging but not motorized sluicing. At least around here they consider dredging more of a disturbance I guess. A motorized sluice is still limited by shoveling ability and how much you can move in a day maybe?
A motorized sluice to me would seem like it could be a realistic testing tool for a possible claim so you couldn't really go get permits everytime you test somewhere. I wouldn't hesitate to use one of them or a dry washer anywhere either. Neither one does what a dredge does. They both take shovel work. -------------------- Level 2 member -12/25/16
Referral code JL697 |
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