Closed area on Ark.? Options

[russau]

Carl ask Jon to show these words of wit in writing otherwise he dont know sqwat and he needs to keep his unknowing mouth shut before he gets int otrouble!!

[CP]

I totally agree with the recreational term not being used unless one wishes to be treated as a recreationalist.

It's also very important that we as citizens also know what the FS delegated authority is and what that pertains to.
"Surface resources" (what are those......do you know?) and "occupancy" are what is delegated by congress to the FS ..........regulating mining has been specifically withheld from their delegated authority at every level including 36cfr.

Good luck on all your prospecting everyone, your knowledge is power! DIG IN!!!

[russau]

when a gubermint employee trys to bully a American citizen off public land or tries to bully him into beleiveing his warped wacoenviromental veiws, it just burns me! then they needtobe reported and set straight!

[OklaPony]

EIS, no. Water quality, no. Hydrophysics, somewhat. I am merely fascinated by stream mechanics. Not just how stuff settles, but the transport and dissemination of various sediments.

I see. Perhaps I can bring a bucket full of Arkansas river sediment from OK up to the high country with me and you can compare its contents to the sediment found in the headwaters, lol.

[Denise]

It's also very important that we as citizens also know what the FS delegated authority is and what that pertains to.
"Surface resources" (what are those......do you know?) and "occupancy" are what is delegated by congress to the FS ..........regulating mining has been specifically withheld from their delegated authority at every level including 36cfr.

You nailed it on that question Dan! Knowing that answer will explain alot for people, and help them understand better I think.
I know the answer, but Im curious to know who else does know, or who wants to know that answer.
Knowledge is power!

[Coalbunny]

I see. Perhaps I can bring a bucket full of Arkansas river sediment from OK up to the high country with me and you can compare its contents to the sediment found in the headwaters, lol.

Sure, just contact me in advance, IOW before you leave. I'm moving a bunch of stuff around my place, here to there and there to here and everything in the middle, so right now it's a mess and the tools I prefer using are boxed up.

[19000mike]

So how much of the Ark is closed to dredging? I am not extremely familiar with the area but I have been to Elephant rock and GPAA claims as well as Point bar area. My family wife and 2 kids 13 and 14 and I like to dredge but we only get to CO twice a year. I have not researched the club areas much but I would like to stay off the Ark even though I enjoy it. Any time any way we can fight the SOB bureacrats I am in! I was born in CO and hope to retire in CO as well. If anyone can help guide me to some fair dredgable property please let me know.

Thanks CP and all others for the help and time you have given to us all.
I better stop writing cause I am getting pi$$ed off more by the minute

Mike

[russau]

its the Arkansa group claim(GPAA) . club claims are the problem i think.

[traddoerr]

Hello All,
Once again I have some more info for you all ( a friend of mine that is a lobbyist/legal consultant, wont give his name as he wants to keep low key from what he calls the enemy).

Russ, I don't know if the GPAA claims/club are an issue but I just got word that the area FS manager is upset that BLM doesn't manage it's lands the same as the USFS, and I hear there starting to raise a little stink about it to the higher ups to put pressure on the BLM,but the BLM managers aren't budging,GOOD FOR THEM! .

From what I understand, that the land managment plan for the public lands (FS,BLM) is going to make some big changes, it started 5yrs ago and this year they really upped the pace, the FS has closed HUNDREDS! of roads/trails and hundreds more to be closed, for vehical/public use in Colorado alone, there not designated as wilderness areas but are going to be managed as wilderness (primitive areas), and WITH SOME NEW RULES! and the FS has full authority to do so and backed by our officals and new laws/rules passed by Congress, this may not affect many of the lower water systems but if you go into the high country this could affect you, BUT! the plan does have some of the lower elevation areas in the plan.

You can look this managment plan up on the USFS site/BLM site. so some of these changes are going to effect many users/recreationalists. hunting/fishing/camping/hiking,ect, and mining.

I found out that an area I hunt and am going to prospect in has been designated as a primitive area this year, so this means that camping now has to be in designated camp grounds (fee areas maybe) and now instead of a 3mile hike it's going to be 7miles, from what I understand some new rules for suface use will be inforced as well, NO! new roads/trails can be made for ANY reason is one of the new laws.

If you go to some of the hunting web sites (bowsite.com) there is allot of upset people as there hunting access areas are being closed off and the areas where we camp are being changed. There is a CFR (or use to be) that says one can camp any were in the FS system as long as they are no more than 100' from a main road and they are not causing significant surface damage and no designated camping is inforced, this rule is to be managed by the district manager, wilderness areas are a little different as for camping, but with the new rules/laws it gives the district manager more power, so we'll see what happens.

I'll pass on more info as my friend gives us more, it seems to me our countries activists are getting more & more power to get what they want done,and at the tax payers expence!

[CP]

Hi Mike, you're very welcome and good luck on the prospecting adventures when you do get to come out to Colorado. I'll send you a pm with some club area suggestions too.
Russ is right about that clubs claims, they've been closed to dredging by that club. I don't know if other clubs who have claims in that area have also thown their rights to the wind as well. But from what I've been reading there have been other clubs paying bonds to the wrong depts for activities that any one could undertake without even filing a claim. That's not the only area in Colorado this kind of terrible precedence is being set by those groups who are just filing papers without any regards to learning what the law actually states first.

As for the "new rules and plans"...........RULES AND PLANS DO NOT MAKE LAWS FOLKS!
Wilderness areas do not prohibit prospecting or mining, it states so in the law!
Wilderness areas/roadless areas can not restrict claim owners acess and I've even shown the CP club members how you act upon your rights to access and prospect even within roadless areas.......with vehicles and without a claim there yet.
Mining/prospecting is your right, access is your right.....hunting is not a right.
Remember folks act accordingly out there, it's your right to do so!

Camping (dispersed) is allowed up to 300 feet from any marked roadway, however, in the roadless areas they can restrict camping (recreation) as traddoerr stated.

After reading this thread, would you like to find out more facts about your rights to prospect for minerals? Not a club member yet?
Why not check it out? It may be just what you've been looking for all this time.
ColoradoProspector club membership helps keep this site open for all to use as a resource and help better understand where and how to proceed when prospecting.

CP

[19000mike]

Hi all,
We miners will no doubt go head to head with theese folk at some time soon. Some of Our good friends in Indiana faced some charges for dredging in navigable waterway a couple years back and with good advice and a long fight actually changed the policy in the state. I think as long as Ken Salazar is involved he will feed off the eco-nut jobs and pad his pockets. I know there are better places to go but the Arkansas has always put some color in the pan. I do look forward to your pm and sure do hope to dredge somewhere in the state.
Thanks CP and all the others that help us rookies! Maybe I can someday find a claim like swizz did.
Thanks,
19000mike

[traddoerr]

Thanks CP for your input, I will join as a member as soon as we get a handle on finances (changing carriers).

You are absolutley right about the laws and that you can prospect/mine in wilderness/primitive areas, what my assosiate is saying is that there are new LAWS (not rules or regs) pertaining to use on the public lands that are being designated as primitive/wilderness, these laws were passed along with the US budget, and it pertains to disturbance by use of the public/buisness.

They claim that many of the current roads in use were not put there by the USFS and there for are being closed under the roadless act/managment plan, this hurts every one accross the board from recreationalists/live stock ranching/other industries that relyed on this access and motorized use.

I also know what your saying in the current laws saying about being able to use motor vehicals to access mining claims, ect., but what he was telling me is that motorized use is about to change in these areas until you have an actual claim in place, and he stated that miners/fire wood Co./live stock ranchers and others that rely on some motorized use to aid them is going to be impossible to get approved.

To answer the ? what is the true managment powers of the USFS, it is surface managment, timber/agriculture use/roads & trails, any other surface disturbance that may accure, that is why one has to get a plans of operation filed with them, and then approvel, correct? And the term/law of roadless areas he said means just that, NO new roads/trails. He is trying to get more info this month and lititure that has everything in black and white.

I also asked him what if I want to use a dredger in this area to prospect, he said as it reads, no motors can be used in wilderness/primitive areas with out first getting POO approved, and good luck getting that he said. Now I'm not trying to upset any one or stir the pot sort of say, but, I'm starting to get pi$$ed off about all these new laws, and who backs them.

To give you all a little bit about myself, I have been part of a watch dog group sence 1994, we have lobbyists that we work with and legal consultants, we keep an eye/ear out for any and all outdoor activiteys and small buisnes's, anything that comes along that we feel needs more involvement we try to help, when the CDOW did its first five year season structure for biggame hunting, they (CDOW, Kim Burgess) came to us to get more people involved, Don't think that the USFS only picks on the miners/prospectors (but they may be the smallest group), we have fought battles with them in lots of areas of use, and won most. But with so many liberals in office its getting tougher by the year. As I mentioned when he gets back to me I will post what info I get, my opinion is every one will have to work together to keep what we have now and try to gain back some.

[russau]

well if that troubles you the this ought to get your craw really good! http://www.capwiz.com/cfbf/issues/alert/?a...556&type=CU this ought right land grap/abuse of power will eleminate all dredgeing in the USA if it goes unchallendged! its really messing with the farmers and ranchers but it definatly includes miners aswell. this site offers either a email or letter response but it is in a form letter. use it to make youe own letter in your own words to make a difference! they are accepting comments untill July1 so you need to hurry and send yours in if you want to help! this isnt just a west coast thing! its in EVERYONES backyard right now!do your part in challendgeing this or we could be facing the same problem that the california dredgers have right now!

[traddoerr]

russau, done! I had talked to a profesor from the Colorado school of mines awhile back and he said that he felt that small scale mining is going to be a thing of the past if we dont educate the younger generation how important it is and it's cultural value as well, he thinks allot of this is because of all the groups that have now put a big effort/money into the younger generation and influancing them while there in school.

[russau]

AHMEN TO THAT!!!!!