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How do you determine when your disturbance becomes significant??
realnice
post Jul 28 2010, 10:49 AM
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Hi all, im new to the site. Been prospecting for about 10 years here in Colorado. I hold a few mining claims and am wondering about determining significant disturbance on historically disturbed areas. An area where i have a claim has been logged and mined for a long time and the land shows it. It also has very heavy 4wd use. it is not very pristine at all. One of my claims is visible from the road so recently it has come upon scrutiny by the USFS. there is a 40 ft x 20 ft. worked area. The area is disturbed and is comprised of filled in diggs.
The 228.4 Plan of operations—notice of intent—requirements seem to fit my site as to not have to file a plan of operations, but one stipulation is...
(v) Operations, which in their totality,
will not cause surface resource disturbance
which is substantially different
than that caused by other users
of the National Forest System who are
not required to obtain a Forest Service
special use authorization, contract, or
other written authorization;

If they deem my operation to be causing significant disturbance what can they do? Arent they supposed to inform me to stop and complete a plan of operations? What are my rights here?

How do I appeal a desicion by the USFS?






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realnice :music:
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CP
post Apr 26 2017, 07:00 PM
Post #2


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Joined: 7-October 03
From: Colorado
Member No.: 3



Thanks realnice but I was not confused at all I know what you said previously and I only used that terminology/scenario to fit what you said..."can't afford lawyers to fight FS in court" right....you said that.
My point was .....why would it need to be in court with lawyers....you were merely "threatened" in the field and not even cited with any violations of any kind.
Good gosh the FS is not even authorized to regulate mining at all to any degree at anytime on any land or ground they administer....that authority still is only delegated to BLM by congress....FS can only regulate surface use and occupancy....NEVER MINING!
They are in fact required to approve P.O.O. submitted for mining claims and can merely "attempt to minimized adverse conditions" as the law states! But you are completely correct, I am not a lawyer and have never claimed to be one to any degree.
How ever...I have helped more than a few miners/claim owners with their individual situations over time and even some that have had other gov agencies tell FS officials to stop messing with claim owners as it's not their job.
Our club members know about these claims as they are the claim owners themselves or have read about them on the club members forum...... None of them had success because they followed my advise or anyone else's persay either....what they did was SELF ASSERT AS A CLAIM OWNER! YOU HAVE RIGHTS FS DOES NOT! They work for you!

I sincerely wish the best for you on your future workings. Hopefully everything works out just fine and you have no further issues with FS now.

I still stand by my comments or advise as given previously though.....I do not recommend ever using the FS or working with FS officials to write one's P.O.O. for their mine/claim! sadno.gif
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www.ColoradoProspector.com

IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT!
MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!!


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- realnice   How do you determine when your disturbance becomes significant??   Jul 28 2010, 10:49 AM
- - ColoradoProspector   Hi realnice and welcome to the forums, we are al...   Jul 29 2010, 11:27 AM
- - realnice   I have a mining claim that was unfortunately shut ...   Nov 18 2010, 11:51 PM
|- - Mineral Estate Grantee   Folks, Realnice, The way the Forest Service sees i...   Nov 22 2010, 12:47 AM
|- - iowajoey   QUOTE (realnice @ Nov 18 2010, 11:51 PM) ...   Nov 23 2010, 08:11 PM
- - russau   if this is your legal federal mining claim, you DO...   Nov 21 2010, 06:47 AM
- - ColoradoProspector   Hi Realnice, Russ is correct, you completely have...   Nov 21 2010, 12:12 PM
- - Coalbunny   Title 18, Part I, Chapter 13 Civil Rights Sec. 24...   Nov 22 2010, 02:22 AM
|- - russau   it is a violation of federal law to stop/impede/in...   Nov 23 2010, 06:12 AM
|- - dickb   QUOTE (russau @ Nov 23 2010, 06:12 AM) it...   Nov 23 2010, 09:55 AM
- - ColoradoProspector   Hi Joey and welcome to the forums, I've never...   Nov 25 2010, 05:19 PM
- - realnice   Well, let me begin by saying thank you for all...   Nov 27 2010, 12:59 PM
|- - dickb   Hi realnice: I am still wondering if you have fil...   Nov 27 2010, 06:17 PM
- - realnice   QUOTE (realnice @ Nov 27 2010, 11:59 AM) ...   Nov 27 2010, 09:10 PM
|- - dickb   Hi Again realnice: If the BLM is solid behind you...   Nov 27 2010, 10:14 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   Pit size of 1600 sq ft pit can be (in Colorado) 5-...   Nov 28 2010, 10:43 AM
- - realnice   QUOTE (ColoradoProspector @ Jan 3 2007, 12...   Nov 28 2010, 12:01 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   Good work, that's the quote I was refering to ...   Nov 28 2010, 12:10 PM
- - realnice   Here's a document that I have on significant d...   Nov 28 2010, 01:35 PM
- - realnice   Ok y'all, (those who have read up on this thre...   Nov 30 2010, 06:21 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   Hi again realnice, Yes it is very sad when they d...   Dec 2 2010, 08:24 AM
- - realnice   So, I am finally piecing together my appeal and ho...   Dec 13 2010, 12:47 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   Good luck with it too when finished. I'm think...   Dec 15 2010, 01:12 PM
- - realnice   Well I found that quote I was looking for about n...   Dec 25 2010, 12:19 AM
- - russau   Good luck on your trip and Merry Christmass and Ha...   Dec 25 2010, 06:20 AM
- - Forestwalker   "weather or not the operator submits a NOI, t...   Jan 2 2011, 03:03 PM
- - realnice   Quick update: Got a call yesterday from a...   Jan 8 2011, 05:59 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   Hi realnice, Great work on your response and you ...   Jan 15 2011, 10:43 AM
- - realnice   Hola from Costa Rica.:) No info from the FS yet. ...   Feb 5 2011, 10:57 AM
- - realnice   While in Costa Rica I had a Fax of a F.S document ...   Mar 8 2011, 05:11 PM
- - amethystguy   This is almost a nail biting thread. Can't wa...   Mar 9 2011, 08:24 AM
|- - swizz   QUOTE (amethystguy @ Mar 9 2011, 07:24 AM...   Mar 9 2011, 08:47 AM
- - ColoradoProspector   QUOTE (swizz @ Mar 9 2011, 07:47 AM) Yes...   Mar 9 2011, 10:56 AM
|- - swizz   QUOTE (ColoradoProspector @ Mar 9 2011, 09...   Mar 9 2011, 09:13 PM
- - Mrs.CP   Haha! I about spit my drink on the computer af...   Mar 10 2011, 08:12 AM
|- - leonard   QUOTE (Mrs.CP @ Mar 10 2011, 07:12 AM) Ha...   Mar 11 2011, 06:23 PM
- - realnice   Haha! Bikini Car wash!.... I assume I...   Mar 10 2011, 11:10 AM
- - swizz   I'm going to stick with my classic one-piece b...   Mar 12 2011, 12:31 PM
- - realnice   Ok y'all. Here's a little stuff for you to...   Mar 25 2011, 03:38 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   Interesting letter for sure. I'd say the range...   Mar 30 2011, 10:41 AM
- - Mineral Estate Grantee   The Forest Service and BLM (as well other agencies...   Mar 30 2011, 07:22 PM
- - realnice   Ok, so sorry for being away for a while. Life just...   Jul 14 2011, 12:05 PM
- - Coalbunny   If I were in your shoes, I would get all your duck...   Aug 2 2011, 01:09 AM
- - realnice   Ok, going in for another meeting today in a few ho...   Aug 23 2011, 10:53 AM
- - OkieJon   Realnice,Any updates?   May 7 2012, 12:44 PM
- - realnice   ...I paid the bond and am operating again..They tr...   Jul 5 2013, 09:40 AM
|- - Mrs.CP   QUOTE (realnice @ Jul 5 2013, 09:40 AM) ....   Jul 7 2013, 08:44 AM
- - swizz   Very good news!   Jul 5 2013, 05:31 PM
- - realnice   No . I'm still limited to hand tools   Jul 8 2013, 09:01 AM
- - Mrs.CP   That doesn't even seem right of the forest ser...   Jul 9 2013, 10:44 AM
- - Caveman   Realnice, is your claim located in an ACEC (Area o...   Jul 9 2013, 11:21 AM
|- - swizz   QUOTE (Caveman @ Jul 9 2013, 11:21 AM) ...   Jul 9 2013, 02:59 PM
|- - Caveman   QUOTE (swizz @ Jul 9 2013, 03:59 PM) well...   Jul 9 2013, 09:41 PM
- - swizz   I've never heard of ACEC. New designation? Wha...   Jul 9 2013, 10:13 PM
- - Caveman   I just ran into this, I do not know how long it ha...   Jul 9 2013, 10:54 PM
|- - swizz   QUOTE (Caveman @ Jul 9 2013, 10:54 PM) Go...   Jul 10 2013, 05:54 AM
- - russau   im not as up-to-date as many are here but it sure ...   Jul 10 2013, 05:43 AM
- - Caveman   Both of the places I want to work near here are in...   Jul 10 2013, 06:16 AM
- - swizz   I have been enlightened regarding ACEC (and I shou...   Jul 12 2013, 09:04 AM
- - ColoradoProspector   You're welcome Chris. I'd heard of the ...   Jul 12 2013, 11:08 AM
- - Caveman   SOOoooooo....... I do not have to file a POO to us...   Jul 12 2013, 01:15 PM
- - swizz   Who owns the land?   Jul 12 2013, 02:01 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   QUOTE (Caveman @ Jul 12 2013, 01:15 PM) S...   Jul 12 2013, 02:02 PM
- - Caveman   Interesting...... there are mining claims there (...   Jul 12 2013, 03:37 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   Right Caveman, a POO (plan of operation) is only f...   Jul 15 2013, 10:44 AM
- - Caveman   Well, I have highjacked this thread long enough, s...   Jul 16 2013, 09:05 AM
- - realnice   Havent been around a while. To answer a few questi...   Dec 16 2014, 12:55 PM
|- - swizz   QUOTE (realnice @ Dec 16 2014, 11:55 AM) ...   Dec 16 2014, 05:53 PM
- - EMac   Interesting thread; thanks for the bump today real...   Dec 16 2014, 02:52 PM
- - ColoradoProspector   I’m still a bit confused on this scenario realnice...   Dec 21 2014, 09:08 PM
- - Caveman   It appears the USFS is not honoring the POO - even...   Dec 22 2014, 06:30 PM
- - Mrs.CP   QUOTE (realnice @ Dec 16 2014, 11:55 AM) ...   Dec 23 2014, 12:29 PM
- - Caveman   I suspect that's it - but it may not be..... I...   Dec 23 2014, 06:55 PM
- - realnice   Just checking in on this thread as I do occasional...   Apr 25 2017, 01:43 PM
- - CP   Thanks realnice but I was not confused at all I kn...   Apr 26 2017, 07:00 PM


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