Location Certificates, Claim Jumper Options

[Gold Hill Miner]

I have a mess. BLM did a meets and bounds survey in my area and changed my property lines after 150 years. I have been on the same claims for over 26 years. In the last year I have uncovered every original property marker according to my deeds from the 1800's. Someone intentionally obliterated all of them. Now that same person is trying to prevent me from getting any corrections with violence. BLM recorded no evidence of almost all of them in their survey in 2003. They reset markers. After a year and a half of trying to figure out what happened I realized I just had to prove my shafts and tunnels to the mines have not moved. I own 3 seperate pieces of property. On 2 of those properties I own the mineral rights and the surface rights. On one I own all the mineral rights and only some of the surface rights. If I fix the one with the partial surface rights all the rest will fall back into place. My question is, do I just need the location certificates to get BLM to make the correction. Surveyors say" BLM changed your property lines now live with it." No one will pay any attention to the mine shafts and tunnels which I do not understand. The claim jumping started around 2001. I would not have noticed but the whole area burned in the Fourmile Fire including my home and all my land. When I came home to rebuild my lines had moved. In Boulder County you can encroach on someones land for 18 years and then it is yours. The fire happened only 10 years after the encroachment started. The claim jumper figured I would never know. I still have time to fix this. Boulder County had the location certificates and everything measures correctly according to the certificates and plats according to my property description. Do I need new ones? BLM has now given the claim jumper our property without verifying the shafts, tunnels and location certificates. The claim jumper had 4 structures in trespass on one claim and moved his property lines so he would not have to purchase his trespass issues. No one at Boulder county will help and BLM wants me to file a protest against their 2003 meets and bounds survey. BLM also pinned my horseshoe pit pins almost 100' away from the real line. Help! Even lawyers want me to file quiet title actions in federal court. BLM says they have no money to fix anything and I am just getting a run around.

[CP]

Boy that sure does sound like a can o' worms for sure Gold Hill Miner!

Are these patented mining claims? I'm assuming they are but then you said "BLM sold them to you"....this doesn't sound right.
If they are patented claims then those boundries would be well established in old records even if field markers are lost. Surveying laws are very old and well understood that any new survey or more accurately "resurvey" must be done from exsisting or known survey markers in the field. No one.....not even a surveyor can just "move pins/markers" cause they want to.
It's a felony to remove or deface any survey markers. Surveyors are also required to file their entire survey (including field notes) within one year of complettion to BLM. So that means any survey pin you find with id number can be looked up at BLM's office in it's entire content with field notes...even ones from way way back.
You'll be searching on microphish in their office to get the records and then paying by the page for copies but you could then show/prove where the old surveyors put the pins/markers as well as get the moving surveyors field notes as to why the adjustments were made.
What's on the ground will take precedence if left long enough without contesting by the encroached upon (you).....the government doesn't care and yes at this point it becomes a civil matter between two owners. Without your re-assertion they will win.

What is also troubling......it's sounds to me like there could be a possibility of gov officials using their office/job to violate rights and actually take property from a citizen? You might also want to bone up on the RICO act which if I remeber it right is used to prosecute gov officials who abuse their authority in such manners......within this act you not only can sue the dept but also the individual and be compensated from their personal $$!

I would say you definately do not need any new location certs done.....again, I'm still wondering about the claims themselves......Location claims (unpatented) would have location certificates.
You stated you lived on them so I'm still thinking you are on patented claims.

Another thing you could do is once you've got the older files/field notes and the new ones......Hire your own surveyor to at least review the files first and then possibly redo/re-establish the old survey in the field if they feel the new to be bullshit.
When I worked on the survey party, it was always paramount to find exsisting field markers and work from them....basically redo/re-establish current to work any surveys period!

I'm no lawyer but hopefully the info we've offered here can give you a hand and good luck with this....sounds like you had a rough go of it so far.
Welcome to the forum also, we'll be looking forward to positive updates on your progress.

CP

[Gold Hill Miner]

Boy that sure does sound like a can o' worms for sure Gold Hill Miner!

Are these patented mining claims? I'm assuming they are but then you said "BLM sold them to you"....this doesn't sound right.
If they are patented claims then those boundries would be well established in old records even if field markers are lost. Surveying laws are very old and well understood that any new survey or more accurately "resurvey" must be done from exsisting or known survey markers in the field. No one.....not even a surveyor can just "move pins/markers" cause they want to.
It's a felony to remove or deface any survey markers. Surveyors are also required to file their entire survey (including field notes) within one year of complettion to BLM. So that means any survey pin you find with id number can be looked up at BLM's office in it's entire content with field notes...even ones from way way back.
You'll be searching on microphish in their office to get the records and then paying by the page for copies but you could then show/prove where the old surveyors put the pins/markers as well as get the moving surveyors field notes as to why the adjustments were made.
What's on the ground will take precedence if left long enough without contesting by the encroached upon (you).....the government doesn't care and yes at this point it becomes a civil matter between two owners. Without your re-assertion they will win.

What is also troubling......it's sounds to me like there could be a possibility of gov officials using their office/job to violate rights and actually take property from a citizen? You might also want to bone up on the RICO act which if I remeber it right is used to prosecute gov officials who abuse their authority in such manners......within this act you not only can sue the dept but also the individual and be compensated from their personal $$!

I would say you definately do not need any new location certs done.....again, I'm still wondering about the claims themselves......Location claims (unpatented) would have location certificates.
You stated you lived on them so I'm still thinking you are on patented claims.

Another thing you could do is once you've got the older files/field notes and the new ones......Hire your own surveyor to at least review the files first and then possibly redo/re-establish the old survey in the field if they feel the new to be bullshit.
When I worked on the survey party, it was always paramount to find exsisting field markers and work from them....basically redo/re-establish current to work any surveys period!

I'm no lawyer but hopefully the info we've offered here can give you a hand and good luck with this....sounds like you had a rough go of it so far.
Welcome to the forum also, we'll be looking forward to positive updates on your progress.

CP

[Gold Hill Miner]

I have been trying to get a survey company to quote me on GPS coordinates to go along with one of my Location Certificates. I just need to provide proof to the BLM that one of my 5 patented mines did not move. Then BLM will give me permission to resurvey, repin all of my claims. The one on the most western edge if reset will move all the rest back into place. I was just quoted 5-8000.00 for GPS coordinates, corners set and a plat. I only asked for coordinates to go along with the Location Certificate. The shaft and tunnel are well exposed. Any recommendations on who I call. Am I better off getting a new location certificate for one mine? Would that be cheaper then the coordinates? Am I just be taken for a ride by another Boulder surveyor? The words Location Certificate seem to be ignored constantly in this situation. BLM says all that matters is what is on the ground (shafts and tunnels) Then while standing on my shaft they said all that matters are corners. What the F.?