Closed area on Ark.? Options

[traddoerr]

I was just talking to a gentleman about the Ark. river North of Beuna vista and they said that is has been closed by the BLM for any prospecting from the GPAA claims down to jump rock, has any one else heard this as well, I haven't had the chance to call the local office yet to confirm. I have fished spots along that stretch but was going to try a little prospecting there this year as well.

[CP]

Thanks everyone for posting up in here and you are all very welcome. That's what the Colorado Prospector website is all about "EDUCATION" and that's for everyone who wants to have more knowledge in the field.
Very glad to hear that you will be joining the club ranks soon too Traddoerr, we'll all be looking forward to you and your families future club participation.

Boy has this thread gotten beefy with tangents and information, again good job digging in ya'll!
Lets take a look at some of the basics in the wording though before we start jumping through all the hoops presented by government officials.

Motors and wilderness areas...........I can clearly see where the wording disallows (by law) the use of "motorized vehicles" but how did hand carried type equipment get lumped into the no motorized prohibited things. A combo unit or dredge that small or chainsaw for that matter are not motorized vehicles, so why would we assume that they are prohibited, or even worse yet, believe it because the ranger we talked to said that?

Russ mentioned the CWA 404/NPDES permits that are supposedly daming dredging across the country............Here's another fine example of wording missed that would actually take dredging right out of that catagory I think.
CWA 404 permits have to do with "introduced pollutants".........What pollutant is "introduced" by dredging with hand carried equipment?
I think we all know there is no introduced pollutant so why in the world would any miner/dredger even want to apply for a permit to stop pollutants introduced if there were no pollutants introduced to start with. Just how would the water dept (CDF&G, DEQ whatever) approve such an application? By filing for the permit you've just stated you are in fact introducing "some pollutant", now they want to find it and stop it......DON'T APPLY FOR THE STUPID FRICKEN THING, JUST GET TO WORK WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS! See if they want to push you into court and prove you had "introduced a pollutant" to the judge.....I'm betting they won't be able to prove SH!T!
TSS or suspended turbidity from one dredge can in no way match mother nature so the current ploy of pollutant "stir up" won't fly either and if it did fly in court then you should have had a better lawyer!!

Has anyone figured out the "sureface resorce" question yet?
Traddoerr said......

To answer the ? what is the true managment powers of the USFS, it is surface managment, timber/agriculture use/roads & trails, any other surface disturbance that may accure, that is why one has to get a plans of operation filed with them, and then approvel, correct? And the term/law of roadless areas he said means just that, NO new roads/trails. He is trying to get more info this month and lititure that has everything in black and white.

This is very close......The FS is a "surface management agency" and their authority is over two catagories only and those are "surface resources" (the questions posed earlier), and the second being "occupancy". They have no sole discretion on roads closed or used for, although they sure can have influence on outcomes, especially when public doesn't get involved locally.
Any surface disturbances..........no not at all in fact the wording says "significant surface resource disturbance" in the law, this is why I've posed the questions about basic wording. And they are only allowed to mitigate the disturbance......not stop it by prohibiting activities across the board!

So we are still looking for the actual "surface resource" answer of the FS's two delegated authorities to manange surface use with.
By the way is mining considered a surface use?
Does the FS regulate mining or sub surface activities?
What is the "surface" considered to be?

I could go on and on but I digress for now........

It's about the basics folks, ain't no point in changing the laws to suit stupid......no offense intended to anyone reading just a point. We have to learn what there is in the law and use it first before we can ever effectively put change to them.
If your(OUR) activities as prospectors/miners don't fall into those catagories then why would we as individual allow the officials (who work for us-tax dollars) to regulate us in the field beyond their authourities delegated by law? IT'S UP TO YOU, IT'S YOUR RIGHT!!

Although much in the stupid politics world does flow west to east, the abuse of power by government officials is certainly not new and not starting in California this year. These abuses probably started about when the depts started or shortly after and some poor precendences set take decades to unravel, just like what has been and is still currently being unraveled here in Colorado concerning the FS and it's abuses dealing with mining claims for the last 4 decades!
That hype about it's all coming to your state soon does make for good fund raising efforts I guess...... Doesn't do any good to send them money though if they use it in an attempt to "change/fix" laws they do not yet understand as written. IMHO

Clearly they do not as demonstrated in several states by several clubs/groups including some here in Colorado unfortunately. These clubs/groups are continually misleading their followers into thinking recreations are rights, they are not. Or that "education" comes in a pretty magazine/dvd box set and a pan.........where's the "education" come into play?
Whilst they continually comprise (work with the officials as they like to call it) and toss their rights as claim owners to the wind (no motors used on our "tourist claim") What the hell is a tourist claim?!!! Oh bright move there using the word tourist in association with claim ownership!!
No dredging on our claims so and so club says, BLM wants us to file a POO for aggregated disturbances (gee I wonder why?)......
So it's just...........oooops no worries I guess, what's one more bad precendence gonna' do???? Or 2 or 3 ..........well there ya' have it. It's a chain reaction and yep can go coast to coast folks.
STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.....Is that how that saying goes? And are we the people so intimdated by a uniform we can't see this in the BS called "official plans and rules". They work for us and the law says how they do that job, not their personal take on things!

Pay attention everyone........it's a never ending battle and we will hand this country down to our youngsters ...... Yours and mine, lets give them something our forefathers would be proud of! A government kept in check by the only thing that ever has.......IT'S PEOPLE!!!

Dig in, pass it on and like mentioned above.....EDUCATE EM' ALL!

CP