After Saturday's cold, I realized perhaps shorts only isn't enough to stay warm in a mountain creek in mid-Oct.

Had the sun come out it would have been tolerable with some numb feet and hands only (spring for me really), but with nothing to warm the rest of me up, Jesse and I ended up packing in early (btw, she was in dry overalls, and was still cold).

I definitely want to be out there digging still, but would also like to retain all my digits while avoiding hypothermia (I have that t-shirt already). What do y'all use to keep warm in the water, and how has your experience been with what you use (brand, model, etc.)?

I've seen the discussions around gloves not mattering since they'll get ruined quickly moving cobbles, and also saw the pic of Mrs. CP in the water in what appears to be a dry covering over her legs and full length panning gloves (with the elastic in the back). I've never bought any of this stuff, don't know which brands are better than others, what thicknesses or sizes to buy or what features I should look for. I saw one thread on wet suits, but there was only 1 reply.

I can very much envision myself underwater with a hot water system some day, and would prefer to be as efficient with funds as possible (i.e. only buy once for the next 5 years or so....unless this is an unrealistic expectation). This might give me some good starting points for my looming search.

One of these days, I'll get out there with ya both... anywho, I'm a skinny guy... so cold effects me greatly. If I was you, I'd wear snow pants/thermals inside waders. Otherwise, SoL. I have some wet socks, if you want them... left my booties at a river last year....DOH! Good $130 down the.. well, river.. lol. (tho not lol, sucks) I thought 'bout this when Fe...nix 'why do I always want to say Felix' invited me out a few days ago. Really tho, in my opinion, thermals are best. And/or you can be a MAN and go T-shirt/shorts all the way to next spring. (I can be a man, tho a skinny man, and wear thermals)

I was ill equipped. Not only did I forget my shovel, I forgot how flipping cold the water can get. What I should have and will be wearing is thermal long johns, sweats, thermal long sleeve, a sweater, waterproof jacket, gloves in pocket and my rubber gloves while digging, wool socks and reg socks. My waders are 4mil thick. They come in various mil depending on what you do.

Colin, he was being a man. He's not a chunky kid either. I actually admire how long he lasted. I went into the hole and when I came out after 1 shovel full, and instantly turned purple up both my arms. I was done lol, check please!

MAN...it was cold is what I know. ...that and I'm truly ignorant in this arena.

I've never personally seen a waterproof suit...the "waterproof" ones we had for water survival leaked like sieves. Based off that, I have a bias towards a wetsuit since I figure I'll end up wet either way. Particularly since I'd probably be a bit rough on whatever it is I buy. I've never put on a pair of waders or a wetsuit much less a dry suit....just crappy ol AF training re-issue.

Any votes for wetsuits over waders/full arm gloves? Or is the answer all of the above depending on my situation? That's fair, but I'm still interested in reading what you picked and why if you'll share.

I found a thread on dive suits from Swizz and looks like he uses a Henderson GoldCore. Any thoughts for one brand over another for whatever your preference is for any of the above?

Thanks for your help!

Found some more good info here from Leonard & Swizz: Beginning Equipment

and here from Swizz: Now it's starting to get fun....

They're still light on particular recommendations though. Brands/types more reliable than others for this application with constant movement and bending with frequent abrasions?

EMac, you have to find what fits you - that's why they are light on brands/styles - Me, I use a 1mm single piece suit, but I forget the brand - buth then again, I don't go when it's this cold. I'm fine as long as I'm working, but as soon as I start to pack it out, I go into the hard shivers.

Eat a ton of calories the day before, and day of, during, and immediately after you get out. That will help. I do use gloves - Sterns neoprine fishing gloves, and water shoes - but then again, I handle cold while I'm working better than most - I'm running about 22% body fat, though, and I start feeling it as soon as I stop shoveling/dredging.

Go to a dive center and check out 3mm farmer johns (that will give you 6mm over your core area). Shop around, and try several differant brands - I recommend those that have titanium as they warm up quicker, and stay warmer, too. Or see if they are selling/discarding their rental suits.

Things that do help - especially when putting on a wetsuit (to reduce friction from body hair) - nylons! and they will also help keep you warmer (Those football players of old weren't kidding, they wore them for snow games!). Or, you can go with UnderArmour Hot Gear thermals. Still nylons, just thicker and more manly.

Good Luck!

Thanks Caveman!

I have a scuba store nearby, so figure I'll poke my head in there sometime. I still have the questions on brands and features, particularly looking at options on scuba.com where they show the cold water suits ranging from ~$130 for Aqualung 6mm up to over $600 for Seac 7mm, and everything in between. I'm also curious about the differences in resilience to wear and tear for this application. If it's all the same, I'd go for cheapest, but color me skeptical.

I already have the UA heat gear thermal/compression gear (which are also great for wrestling/grappling if any of you do that too), so I'm set that way. No need for this guy to buy hosiery.

I consider 6mm to be too much for here, especially if you get the titanium weave.... but it is individual preference. I like to be able to move. Also, modern wetsuits are warmer than the old neoprene designs, so take that ino account, too. As for wear and tear.... the newer tech is more hardy, too. Make sure you get the ones with knee guards built in, and wear knee pads over them. They are going to get worn no matter what you do, but the new materials are tougher than the old, straight neoprene suits.

As far as brands, you have to keep trying until you find the one that fits you best. There is no way around that, BodyGlove suits give more freedom of movement, but they are thinner, looser cut at some points of the body, and therefore, not as warm - but remember - they are designed more for surfers, body boarders, skiers, etc., and all these activites burn more energy in short bursts than diving. You have to find what works for you, and your body type.

Now weights - if you have a wetsuit, you are going to be positively bouyant. I would wear 12lbs of weight at the hips, and 2lbs at each ankle to keep positive traction on the feet. Now weight depends on your size, the amout of body fat you have (and where that is located), etc. Lead weight must also be able to be quickly shed, for safty reasons. This should give you plenty to think about.

Very cool; looks like I'll be trying on suits sometime. I hadn't considered the weights before, but makes absolute sense. I know I'm dense (in more ways than one...) from learning about my fall rate in skydiving, but with a suit, I'm sure I'd still need extra weight. Did you make your own belt, get one from Swizz (referencing the other post) or buy them?

Thanks for the help!

For being in the water in cold weather, I recommend dry waders. Not too bad priced either!! It is what I was using in the "winter dredging" thread. The dry waders have booties that you can just slip your shoes over. As far as the orange gloves I was wearing....they sucked!! Things inside liners started ripping out almost right away making them just about as handy as a pair of rubber gloves for doing dishes. They do sell dry gloves though that work great, especially the ones that go up your arms a bit covering your wrists. One just needs to be really careful like Jesse said about hypothermia! Only work when it's comfortable for you.

I got mine from Chris, but even though it is from Keene, it looks to be a standard dive belt. You flip the release, and off it comes!

Perfect! I've been considering some long gloves and waders as well to possibly try out some sniping with my hand dredge. Knowing the orange gloves fall apart is very good to know. I'll certainly keep an eye on hypothermia too; I had moderate hypothermia in survival, and don't need a 2nd t-shirt.

Right on, thanks!

Ok...I'm apparently good at making holes in waders. I bought a tube of aqua patch stuff (not sure the brand), that had a catalyst to cure in just a few hours. Unfortunately I didn't clean the cap well last time, and it cemented on. I ended up tearing a hole in the tube, so it's now toast.

What do you use for hole repairs, and to keep the product viable for future repairs?

I use Aquaseal in a tube, it is a flexible polyurethane product designed for this purpose. It cures with air and ambient temperature. Once the tube is opened, the curing process begins. Use it once... screw the cap on... and that tube will be exactly how you described it... you'll have to poke a hole in the side to access any material.
Solution: When you're finished patching squeeze any excess air from the tube and screw on cap.... then store in freezer for future use. When needed again, remove from freezer and place tube in a cup of hot water for 15 minutes. Aquaseal will be ready for use again. You can repeat this procedure until the tube is exhausted. Freezing the product puts the curing process in suspended animation.

I stopped in the local dive shop last night on the way home (probably more expensive, but it was on the way), and it was Aquaseal I grabbed. I got the accelerator as well. I'll try the freezer after I do my patching tonight. Thanks!

While I was there, I checked out wetsuits quickly. Online I was looking at the Henderson NeoSport and was told by my diver neighbor it would likely work well. The shop guy wanted to steer me away from those in favor of their BARE suits. Anyone have experience one way or the other? They had used BARE farmer johns he'd sell for like $80, and jackets for like another $60.

Anyone have experience with those?

It all depends how serious you are about working in cold water and if you are going to be diving or just long arming it. If diving with air, something like tis is good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NeoSport-by-Hender...%3D370470083388

2 Piece Farmer John 6.5 or 7mm. I'd go with the 6.5mm thickness. A little less restricting. To go with this you will need:

a couple pair of neoprene socks
a pair of shoes to go over them. I like felt sole fishing waders.
a hooded vest. These are usually 2-3 mm thick. It keeps the water away from your back. http://www.keeneeng.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...roduct_Code=DH1
a hood. http://www.keeneeng.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...roduct_Code=DH1
a weight belt.
a couple pair of neoprene gloves. You will wear through in a hurray. http://www.keeneeng.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...oduct_Code=G4K5
a mask, http://www.keeneeng.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...Product_Code=M4
knee pads http://www.keeneeng.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...amp;Per_Page=-1


This will get you going for Colorado water. We've dredged under water when there was ice on the creek with setups like this
Leonard

Much obliged sir! I was looking at the Henderson Waterman; they admit it's a lower quality suit, but I figure I'll be poking holes in it as I bumble around initially anyway. Any thoughts there on higher quality/durability, better seals, etc.?

Great information guys and very helpful!

I can tell you are going to be dredging and not freezing in the mountain water this summer Eric.