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Colorado Prospector - Gem and mineral prospecting and mining forums > Prospecting, Mineral Collecting and Treasure Hunting Forums > Off Topic
AirBreather
Apparently, "we the people" do not own public land. Look at the cuurent case of the rancher in Nevada and all the "law" enforcement people surrounding the guy....Just sayin".
Denise
Hard to respond to the case you are talking about without some detail, but as a citizen of the United States, I "know I own public land"! Knowing your rights and being willing to assert them is a big factor.
fenixsmom
The rancher in question refused to pay the grazing fee set fourth by blm. His cattle have been confiscated since they are trespassing.
Coalbunny
QUOTE (AirBreather @ Apr 11 2014, 06:01 AM) *
Apparently, "we the people" do not own public land. Look at the cuurent case of the rancher in Nevada and all the "law" enforcement people surrounding the guy....Just sayin".

In that case, both side are wrong.

The Bundy's made money off of public land that is under the care of the BLM and refused to pay the relatively inexpensive grazing lease. If you or I mine on the same land and don't have any claims, we can lose everything we put into it, and in some cases I have heard of the miners being fined for not staking the claims. Would you want someone in your backyard with cattle, grazing, and doing it for free?

The BLM was in error as they jumped the gun. There are a series of actions they must take first before cattle confiscation. And they didn't follow procedure. I do not recall the process followed on that. SUPPOSED to be followed, that is.

So both sides made mistakes. And AFAIC they should formally apologize to one another, shake hands and get over it.

However, I know, personally, a couple guys that went to the she-bang in Clark county, and they were looking for a reason to pull the trigger. they want a war. They are looking for a reason to kill. That is so wrong.

Based on what little bit I know about the whole thing, if I was there and the shooting started, I'd back up the BLM before I would the Bundy's and the militia. Check out the debriefing video done by Oath Keepers, and you'll see what I mean. Stewart and his crew were very professional about the whole thing and they wanted nothing to do with the militia.

I hate to say this, but if us miners gotta paying fees to mine on BLM land, then so do the ranchers. And while the Bundy's and their supporters are singing high praises of NOT paying the grazing lease fees, they also complain about the tax dollars the BLM uses. Well, MAYBE if they paid the lease fees the BLM wouldn't need to use tax dollars. I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me that tells how much money of what source was used where.

In the end, consider this like your yard. You pay a local kid to take care of it because he can do what you can't because you and your missus have to work. Ok, good. BLM & USFS are on the very same concept. But...they do far more than any can think of.

When we go out there on BLM or USFS managed lands, we are obligated to take care of the land. No littering, no destroying historical/archeological artifacts/sites, essentially treating that land as we treat out yard. Ho would you like it if someone came into your front yard, had a BBQ and left trash all over the place and did donuts and hill climbs, destroying your yard? You wouldn't like it. Likewise, the kid you hired to take care of your yard is gonna do...what? He's gonna charge you extra to clean it up. And then he's gonna tell you "I can fix this but you have to not do this and not do that until it's fixed". Hmmm. Sounds familiar in a sense, doesn't it?

That is my land, your land, everyone's land. Hell, if you have a family from another country, be it Angola, Morocco, China, France or Indonesia, come here on vacation for a month...guess what? They can freely use that land as well. If they wanna camp, they can. If they wanna just it there and play music to the sunset, they can. The only thing I don't think they can do is stake a mining claim. But, if there are no claims, they can prospect all they want, as well. Just like you & I.

Ain't America great!

/end rant
CP
Posts in this thread were split/moderated from another thread to keep on topic........
EMac
I saw some articles on the Ammon Bundy trial, and started wondering whatever came of the standoff at the ranch. Searching for Bundy brought me here. Not much meat on the bone in these discussions, but I found a detailed look from the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Ammon's trial is progressing with plenty of news about it, but there's not much on what's happening with Cliven's trial. It was a 16-count indictment filed in February 2016 and the biggest news seems to be his lawyer was allowed to withdraw for back surgery. BLM went back to work in Gold Butte in June making me wonder if the whole fiasco was worth it (looks like he lost his cattle, freedom, and likely more property/freedom once his trial progresses): TPM Article

I can't find where the BLM "jumped the gun" as Coalbunny mentions, but I'm still reading. Looks to me they had a court order to seize the cattle in 1998, and Bundy's appeal lost.
EMac
I've been doing some more reading, and found the US' pre-trial detention motion against Cliven fairly eye-opening; I'll have to see if there were any rebuttals filed on behalf of Bundy:

Pre-Trial Motion for Detention Case 3:16-mj-00014 Filed 2/16/16
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