This thread will help dispell many of the myths that one finds floating around when surfing the internet and or talking with officials as prospectors in the field concerning the small scale miner. Over the years these are some we've encountered and felt needed dispelled or answered.
More will be added as we run across them or you can add your's that you found and know is just not accurate information.

To learn more about anything you read in this post or to look up other laws and regulations you wish to find, just click on over to the Colorado Prospector Forum's section
Prospecting and Mining Laws, Regulations etc.
We've quoted many many of these for your convenience as well as easy links to follow when more are needed to be found as refered from quotes directly from the laws themselves.

So here we go, hopefully this information helps out with many questions to the new and old prospetors alike.

CP


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Does the Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management own the FS/BLM lands or locatable minerals?

No, the United States citizens own the public lands and the FS and BLM over see their use/regulation via the USC (United States Code) laws and CFR's (Code of Federal Regulations).

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Are rockhounding and prospecting related?

Yes, rockhounding is prospecting which is part of the basic first steps of mining. Rockhounding/prospecting for samples of any minerals in the field, require that you as the prospector know you are in fact on open land or have permission from the claim owner, should you be on a mining claim.

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Can you access a mine site that looks abandoned without any recent activity?

No, you can not access any mine site just because it appears to be abandoned, you must first find out if the claim is still active, patented etc prior to accessing the site and get permission if needed when still owned.

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Can you collect minerals off the surface while hiking across location claims or patented claims?

No, you may not collect minerals while traversing across any claims as they are private propertay and this would be classified as mineral tresspass and theft.

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Are road right of ways open to prospect?

No, generally road right of ways are not open to prospect as the claim owner would still own those minerals as well. Road easements do not over ride mineral ownership rights.

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If the claim isn't marked or fenced off, can I go prospecting there?

No, as a field prospector it is your responsibilty to know whether or not you are on a claim and to respect that claim owners claim in the field, just as you would expect other prospectors do as a claim owner yourself at your claim.
Federal law dictates markers (corners and discovery/location cert.) must be marked on a claim, but there is no requirement to let the genreal public know via fences or signage.

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Can states or local government entities over ride or supercede federal law's pertaining to mining on FS or BLM lands?

No, they definately can not! In fact the law states that although states laws may be more restrictive in some cases than federal law, but when mining is concerned, they must follow all of the guidelines found in 43CFR3809.

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Can I make money every day I prospect vs the gas money I spend etc?

No, realistically starting out as a new prospector, you will more than likely not make your gas money back out trying to learn. But with time, diligent work, thorough research and proper field techniques you could in fact make a profit mining. Millions of americans make their entire living from mining, and thank goodness for every one of them too!

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Who regulates mining claims on FS lands?

The BLM regulates all mining activities on public lands, the FS is "delegated the authority" to regulate surface use and occupancy only on FS lands. When mining is concerned, the FS must follow mining laws and confer with BLM on all decisions for mining claims and operations.

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Do I need a permit to prospect or collect minerals if there are no claims on this site? (NF or BLM)

No, as a citizen you have the right and you do not need any permit to prospect and collect your own mineral samples, and also to further those discoveries and develop them within the public lands.

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Are state forests the same as national forests?

No, definately not. State forests are run by the state itself and are not part of the federal public national forest lands. Laws and regulations for national forest lands do not apply to state forests.

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Are mining claims and laws the same from one state to the next on FS or BLM lands?

Yes they are. There are several laws to insure that not only are they consistently applied nationwide and the federal mineral policy accounted for, but that if they are varied, they still must comply with the mining laws and the citizens rights to prospect and mine.

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Can government officials at any level give me actual legal advise with claims, paperwork, or laws pertaining to them? (BLM, FS, state or county)

No, in fact the law states they are forbidden from giving any type of legal advise. Do not believe it just because you "heard" it, find out for sure what the truth is for yourself.

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Do I need to refill or reclaim my test digs as a small scale miner in the field prospecting on open land?

Yes, absolutely, you need to refill any test holes you have dug for sampling unless you will be back in less than 24 hours to do further testing in the same hole. This does not apply to mining claim owners when working their claims, those guidelines are much different than that of the prospector on ground without claims.


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If a mine operation site has been reclaimed, can I go prospecting there?

No, reclamation is supposed to be done by miners as a final step to completion of their operations. These reclamations often are costly and are always designed to look natural. Digging a reclaimed site is not only destroying the mines actual work, but is also tresspassing private property, unless you've gotten permission first of course.

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When I asked the Forest Service office where I could prospect, they said "If there's not a fence or sign, you should be ok."......can I trust that and go ahead out in the field to prospect?

No, absolutely not. Although that person at the counter may have been very helpful in the office, their word of mouth is not accurate information for you to use in the field prospecting.

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All the ground worth claiming has been claimed previously. True of false?

False, there are millions of acres unclaimed and with new technology breakthroughs, more and more minerals will be used for things like ecologically friendly cars (REE's & PGM's). Also, all 50 states still mine something today and we all use 1000's of mined products everyday.

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Do I need to ask permission from the FS or BLM to go out prospecting and collecting samples?

No, it is our right as citizens to do so as stated by law. You only need to comply with further laws/regulations during operations which will "create a significant surface resource disturbance".

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Do I need to file a claim first to use a sluice, pan or use any hand carried prospecting equipment?

No, absolutely not. Hand carried prospecting equipment does not require any special authorization nor will you create any significant disturbance using hand carried prospecting equipment.

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Are there taxes or fees that claim owners pay for claims every year?

Yes, although different for patented or location in the fact that taxes are paid on patented/deeded land, where as location claims pay a yearly fee to maintain the files. Some counties will impose what they call a tax per year on location claims but legally these are more acurately fees and not tax, as there has been no "mineral survey" to determine value for county property tax purposes.
For location claims yearly fees, small scale miners (owning 10 claims or less), have the option of filing a waiver stating there yearly value of fees expended during their years work. Claim owners with more than 10 claims do not have the small scale waiver options and must pay the fees.

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Can I prospect in a wilderness area or road less area?

Yes you certainly can as long as there is no claim exsisting there. The federal law states that roadless or wilderness areas do not prohibit prospecting.

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I've found a closed claim on LR2000 or Geocom or etc......can I file a claim there now even though I've not been to the site or prospected on it?

No, at this point you can not file a valid claim. You must first make your "discovery" to even "stake" your claim, both of which are steps in which you have visited and prospected the site. Filing without those steps is actually filing an invalid claim by two violations of the 1872 mining law's intent. Real prospectors/miners call this "paper filing" and it's very much frowned upon.
If you are considering buying a claim, make sure someone hasn't just paper filed as described. Use caution and verify the claim is in fact valid, this is a common scam.
Mining law states the 1 and only reason you can file and hold claims is for mining. Filing on paper to resell has nothing to do with any part of actual mining.

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Can location claims be closed off to the public with fences and or gates?

Yes they sure can and often are while under working plans of operations as a precautionary saftey measure to the general public. They will also not always be on the claims perimeters but only surrounding the actual workings at that time, it's still your responsibilty in the field to know where the actual boundries are and respect them.

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If I find an old drift (tunnel) and or tailings pile can I prospect/collect samples from there as long as it appears no ones been there in years?

No, legally the drift, all minerals within, and the tailings are still very much the claim owners property as well as a very dangerous place to be within the drift tunnel. STAY OUT, STAY ALIVE!!
Contrary to popular belief, you still need the claim owners permission to access or prospect these tailings.
If there is no exsisting valid claim then you can prospect there.

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Very good info CP. Thanks for posting for all to read.

Hi Bottledigger, Thank you and you are very welcome. I hope many more folks find this thread useful in the future too.

CP

Hey Denise, you think we'll ever convince Dan to start wearing either a MSHA approved bumpcap or a OSHA/MSHA approved hard hat the next time he goes underground?

Heck, even if it's just a motorcycle helmet, SOMETHING is better than nothing.

I've seen off-roaders go into mines, barely nick their unprotected heads, and 'cause it's a head thing it bleeds like there ain't no tomorrow. THEN they whine "WAHHHH! We gotta close off ALL mines 'cause they is dainnnngurrrrrus! Yeah! Lawdy yeah! Uh huh! Uh huh!".

Instead we need to put a bounty on their heads and have an open bag limit.....

Sorry about the rant!

IMO we need to brain storm and then define what small scale mining is versus recreational mining. Then present it to the feds and state. From what I know in the work I've done for the USFS, if we don't work with them on mutually agreed terms, the fed's'll make their own and we won't like them.

Ok, Ok, Coalbunny You got me on that one, I'll never live that picture down.
You are absolutely correct too, I should have been wearing my brain bucket that day.

On small scale mining vs recreational prospector..........You are right we do need to brain storm.
This friday's CP chat discussion is for just that topic too, I think we as prospectors / miners have alot going for us already in the law, as do folks who view themselves as more a recreationalist. Understanding this is what we need to do first, understanding the exsisting law before we try changing it. Sometimes when we propose to change things without knowing all the facts, there could be negative consequences which could have been avoided all together if we'd only understood the exsisting law first. When we understand more, we can then pass that education along to the ill informed officials who should already know it.

See everyone there friday with your thoughts.

CP

Unless you are able, or willing, to prove that your mining is benefiting you according to the prudent man rule (covering your basic needs), you'll likely be a recreational miner.

The BLM tried that with me some years back, and I had & still have documents that show that mining is my primary source of income. Even then they balked at it claiming I had to have employees to qualify as small scale mining. Every time you meet the BLMs standards, they go and change them, out of reach. And each time you reach it, they change them again.

Carl i disagree with your statement about "recreational miner" ! and you dont need any employees to be a small scale miner! the prudent rule law dont apply while your prospecting for a spot! once you find a spot and try to file a claim for it, then the prudent rule applies! a small scale miner can go broke prospecting for a good spot. while prospecting ,hes not mining, hes looking. see the difference?

Prospecting is a step of mining in that it is one of the first steps prior to filing a claim and working a mine.

The prudant man rule doesn't come into play unless one is in the process to perfect a location claim for patenting as I understand it, and it's whether or not a "profit" has been made from the mine/operation.

Small scale miner or recreational prospector, what difference and why is the chat topic for tomorrow night too, hope to see everyone there. 6 pm MST.

CP

It's not my opinion, Russ & Dan. I have been told that by the BLM several times before.

well we all know the BLM and the FS like to add/change/alter anything to make their beleifs what they want. but it is up to us to correct their misbeleifs/understandings/and waco agendas with the true/valid facts ,not what they want to try to force feed us!

I understand Coalbunny, sometimes we get told things from officials that sounds maybe right but without looking ourselves it's hard to make that call.

Lets look at what is posted on the BLM website for the "Prudent man rule"
Quoting from their page.......


You can find more information at the BLM's mining law page which is also easily found on our prospecting links page in the government links section.

Don't confuse the "prudent man" concept with "sleeping on your rights"...

CP is spot on with the comment about the prudent man rule being taken into account only when one applies for patent. Until that patent application is made, a prudent man should make the effort to file claim, work the site and exclude others from the claim until such time as a discovery is made. Then the discovery is subjected to the prudent man rule to determine if a patent is in order. Perhaps there is a mineral discovery, but the claim would not be economical for a prudent man to pursue. Then the patent would not be allowed.

If a prospector "sleeps on his rights" by not staking a claim and following through with the filing process in the county and BLM, then another prospector can enter the land against the first... since the first didn't take the required steps towards the prudent man concept. You should always act "prudently" when you are following up on a good mineral showing. Stake the claim if you want the protection of the law against others (including the government since it can remove public lands rapidly with a process called withdrawal). If at such time as you decide the claim doesn’t have value to you, you can abandon the claim simply by sending a letter to BLM or by not paying the lease fees or submitting an acceptable small miner’s exemption. I have seen many square miles claimed by diamond prospecting companies before they even take samples or properly prospect the area. These blanket claims still protect them while they follow through with the act of making a discovery.

A person (or corporation) can file a claim after staking and work it without going to patent. Patenting is not illegal yet, it isn't being done due to the government not funding a mineral surveyor position. Until such time as a Mineral Surveyor is made available, the federal government is not processing applications for patent. In fact, most people or corporations do not patent mineral claims. It is more cost effective to avoid the additional taxation that comes with a patent. The patent gives the claim holder no additional mineral rights...only the other land rights (with the exception of ditch and canal rights-of-way).

Of course, I am not an attorney or legal expert. These are just my opinions formulated over many years of prospecting, staking, claiming and mining. If in doubt, I would suggest you seek the help of an attorney to make sure you don't get caught "sleeping on your rights". If you don't exercise the rights that are available under the law, you don't really have a right...or a claim.
ASTROBLEME

You can still get claims patented?

The Secretary of the Interior issued Secretarial Order 3163 effective October 1, 1994 placing a moratorium on BLM from accepting or processing new mineral patent applications. This moratorium is renewed annually by Congress as part of their review of the Interior Appropriations Acts. Patent applications prior to the effective date are still being processed.

There is a continued lobby effort to repeal the 1994 action.

ASTROBLEME

if im not mistaken the prudent man rule also applies to claim owners. and theres lots of people fileing for claims or owning claims that dont quit fit into that condition and thusly have a illegal claim and can be pulled from them because of it.

The prudent man rule is only used by claim owners and only when in the process of perfecting the claim to patent.
Unless they are trying to patent the claim it doesn't apply, or in other words, it's not the time to use the prudent man rule.

ok, i thought the claim owner (im not one) could have to prove the prudent man rule if questioned by the "ruling agency" if questioned about his claims validity. this keeps people from aquireing land as claims for hunting or other than locateable mineral extract. and if found that their not in compliance with this rule, they would lose their claim!

after all, why would you bother aquireing a claim if there isnt any locatable minerals on it. why put in all the work for nothing. i thought you had to make a find,even if its a very small find, then claim it.

Yes Russ, indeed, why would someone? These are called paper filers and many of whom have never visited the ground they claimed but only filed the paperwork.......usually with the intent to resell immediately (without any proven work/deposit) or as many say......."to mine the miners"
It's disgraceful!

Although many are doing it, it doesn't make it legal or ethical.
Mining claims are for only 1 reason......TO MINE!
So, any bona fide miner that has that in mind would also have the thought for future work, life expectancy of the mine and reclamation as needed through out. This would normally include perfection to patent (in the old days) and proving the prudent man rule through that process.

As Astrobleme said though, there is a moratorium on patenting process and another bit from what I've read...... there is no funding for a federal mineral surveyor. Without the federal approved mineral survey of the deposit within claim, the perfecting to patent process is impossible to complete.

I have no idea what a federal approved mineral survey is vs a private, but I'm guessing neither one is cheap.

CP

No, owning a mining claim isn't cheap (I'm a partner on 4 claims). If one want's to make improvements, and yes there is a moratorium on the patenting process, the B.L.M. has a specialist for geology, environment, weeds, etc. If they do approve your request, a bond is required, B.L.M. sets the amount, and when you give up or loose the claim, you've promised to restore it to its original state. If you don't, the bond is forfeited, and the bond company comes after you. The B.L.M. stonewalls you at every turn. They even contradict their own rules

Owning a claim and a mineral survey are 2 completely different things and actually owning the claim isn't really expensive itself.

I'm thinking the "request" is a POO submitted (including reclamation plans)? If so, the POO is required to be approved and is no way a "request". In fact the authorities may "request" changes to "minimize adverse conditions" but they are required to approve them.

Bonding is determined by the amount of disturbance proposed and it's my understanding that the bond is handled in Colorado by the Colorado DMRS, not the BLM. Real mining operations do have bonding that will be used if in fact the claim/mine work is abandoned but not because the claim itself is abandoned. When a claim/mine work is abandoned, then the Colorado DMRS is who will come in to actually do the reclamation and the funds will be used to pay for tractors, man power, tree seedlings etc.
As far as "improvements"......there are actually yearly "improvements" required by law to keep a claim that does not need bonding.


Hope this helps straighten out some of the confusion.

CP

So I just Googled "prospecting wilderness area" and the first hit was for Tonto National Forest. This claims that panning, sluicing and metal detecting is the same as mining and not permitted in the wilderness area without a Plan of Operations.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/wilderness/other_Activ.shtml

PDF link of same http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/recreation/r...PROSPECTING.pdf

I stumbled across something similar for some place in Oregon a month ago, didn't save it and couldn't find it later. I saved the PDF file of this one in case it also disappears.

Hi Persistence, good job diggin' in to this.

Here is a link to the quote of the law 16USC1133 "use of wilderness areas" thread where you can read the law itself.

The law states "Nothing in this chapter shall prevent within national forest
wilderness areas any activity, including prospecting"

I'd say the law would trump the FS webpage. Just because a FS webpage says something doesn't mean the law will back it up.

Read it through very thoroughly, and keep in mind that "mineral leasing laws" are not the same as locatables. Wilderness areas clearly define that leasables (commercial operations) are not allowed, but there is a very lengthy paragraph explaining how locatables are still functioning within the wilderness areas.
Leasables not being a valid or exsisting "right" but locatables are in fact a "valid and exsisting right", YOURS!
You'll notice that this phrase is used repeatedly in the law....."subject to valid and or exsisting rights" Your rights are not a lease or permit or license.

Keep on diggin' everyone!

CP

Another myth to dispell and get folks on the right track for their train of thought to be a bonafide prospector/miner in the field.

Can I be charged a fee to access a location claim?

No, absolutely not. It is specifically prohibited by law to charge access to the public land you already have a right to access. holding a claim and charging fees for access DOES NOT fall into a use "reasonably incident to mining".
IE..... IT'S NOT A MINING USE AND THE CLAIM IS BEING HELD FOR NON MINING PURPOSES!

This activity would not be within the intent of the mining law which states the only reason a mining claim can be filed/held is FOR MINING!
No claim owners, groups etc should be asking you to pay fees to access claims they hold.

CP

Ok, "to access". But.... let's say I have 40 acres of claims on the Upper Arkansas (I wish!), and you want permission to go panning there. I can say "no". But then, what if I tell you "Ok, but only if you use this particular piece of your equipment and pay me $20 per day"? I figure that should be permissible. Right?

Well I was speaking strictly "accessing" but lets have a look at your scenario..........

I suppose you could charge a fee per day and stipulate what equipment be used as well as where they prospect but..... In my opinion that wouldn't be a "use reasonably incident to mining" since there isn't any "lease" per say for this arrangement. As a claim owner that would put you personally into a precarious situation/liabilities possible also.
Basically this would still be more like a pay to dig set up which clearly needs to be operated on patented lands. If one were to operate on FS or BLM for pay to dig or fee by the day digging you as a claim owner would be vulnerable to several legal aspects/thresholds crossed that have nothing to do with mining, like an outfitters license for running a paid tourist operation on federal lands.....get the check book out for that puppy!
Insurance for liability while taking them out prospecting which will be required by law for the outfitters license....don't put that check book away yet.

Then there is the factor of "well no one will mind if I leave just one hole unfilled".....even though you may have told them to fill all digs on your claiim. But if you aren't there to make sure of it, do you think everyone will? Whether they do or do not fill digs, once you accepted payment and granted access to prospect, I think you are the responsible party to fill/pay for reclamation should the gov officials get the idea your claims in disarray from your "uses".

Frankly though, if a claim owner wants to stipulate what is used and where the digging is to be done.....wouldn't or shouldn't the claim owner be paying the prospector for his/her time, efforts etc? Prospeting is alot of work!

Anyway, the long and short of it is, it would not be in the claim owners best interest (as a miner) to do that. In court that would be awfully tough to prove as an activity reasonably incident to mining since there was only money exchanged and no minerals sold, leased, extracted or recorded. If you can't prove you were "using the claim for mining activities" then the government could have the ammo to invalidate the claim.

Remember folks, this is just my opinion based on the laws as I read them and I'm open for more discussion in this thread or start new ones if you have more questions. Browse around and read up on all the info, then post up your input. Our collective interpretations of these laws help everyone learn more about them who's interested to learn about them.

CP

Regarding claimants charging "fees":
In reading this, it appears to be an extremely open-ended topic that can easily drift in many legal directions and interpretations. I think it boils down to individual cases based on terms including (but not limited to); "fees", "use", "type of claim, ie patent or location", "purpose", "liability", "lease", etc.... many factors.
In short, one can probably manufacture loopholes based upon definitions of terms to effectively skirt or interpret federal definitions which are obviously loosely defined. That being said, a "loophole" (no matter how good it sounds) still invites a red flag and can potentially cause difficulties ( legal, liable, personal, etc) for all parties involved.

Regarding clubs and claim "fees"...
This is the only prospector-related club that I belong to and CP does not offer pay-to-play claims or charge mining fees with any level of membership. I had looked at almost all of the other prospecting clubs prior to joining here. Every single one that offered claim(s) access stated something to the effect of: "pay here, join us and access to our private claims". This may be well within their rights but I also noticed that they ALL required payers to download and sign a legal waiver releasing the claimant from all or most liabilities. I'm not sure if that could be construed as a legal loophole or just smart business, not qualified to determine that.

Another example that comes to mind are roadside places that offer on-site pay to mine services on their claims. I'm assuming that they are patented claims and subject to different legal obligations or rights in regard to "fees".

Regarding me....
In consideration of eventually offering access to my claim (NOT charging fees) to Level 3 Members, I'm following this thread closely. I'm not interested in making money by charging people to prospect my claim, more interested in sharing with fellow Lifers whom I can both learn from and gather sampling information. My motivation is certainly give/take but involves no monetary exchange. Dan & Denise could potentially benefit slightly from this in a purely indirect way and my claim access to lifetime members should be considered a club donation... which is what I would intend it to be. Win/win/win for all three parties involved is the way I see it if legal and done properly. Although my intentions are noble and not monetary, I really need to clarify the legalities.... can't afford any gray areas!

keep the information coming!

Well said Swizz! This is something many are confused about and have questions regarding..........
What I want to know is why are some still so confused? If paying an individual, group, club or organization that offers up claim access, shouldnt that be explained before paying, on what the claim(s) are used for and what they are teaching you...etc. Take the School of Mines for a good example..... Now thats a website that shows that their goal is education. If one truely wants to learn about mining in many facets, this is a great place. They even have claims (PATENTED) they allow the students to use.......In a supervised organized educational environment .
Now thats the best way to get hands on training.

What I would like to see, is that more of these individuals, groups, clubs or organizations teaching everyone more about safety, land research, laws, regulations, etc.....! Especially if they claim to be eduacting and are charging a fee to access location claims.

Is there someone on scene teaching people about safety, and the proper ways to dig mineral deposits? Are they just told what kind of equipment they can or cant use, and what times they can access the claims? What are people learning just by visiting their websites?

What I do hear alot is that these claims have way too many unclaimed digs, leaving the claims unsafe for the next individual or family that comes to prospect.

It really sadens me! Sorry, but these dont sound like claims/websites I would want to go to learn the RIGHT way to prospect. Just my

I also hear how members of clubs/organizations are still confused and looking for answers.

Thats part of what Dan and myself try really hard to help everyone with. Finding the right laws/answers to their questions. If we all discuss this with each other, than as a whole we can come up with the right answers and ways to do it.



Awesome of you Swizz!
We have just the thing, if you want to use it Swizz. Check it out......
"Mining Claim Lease" thread Dan started.


Denise

Love the form, that is excellent!
I downloaded and printed the MSWord version. Thanks!!

(here's two more cents)
This is what gets my goat also. Clubs spoon-feeding people claims. A fine display of how we have become a lazy self-centered culture that demands instant gratification with little or no work involved, we'd rather pay someone else to do our homework and paperwork. "I don't need to know how it works bub, here's some cash... hand it over, I'll figure it out later if I have time.. I'll sign whatever, let's get rolling"
Granted - this club offers areas, not private claims but real BLM and FS land areas which have been researched and "homework" has been done by club staff. That's where the similarities END. Club members still have to do a little homework prior to visiting each of these areas, as they are public lands and constantly subject to land status or regulatory change at the drop of a hat. Each location provides a clerk/recorder contact info so that club members can AND DO legally check the status through the proper channels... ALL BY THEMSELVES! As basic as this sounds, I find this to be an integral step in the learning process of becoming a small scale miner or well educated recreational miner. One step leads to another and this club provides some great "do-it-yourself" avenues. Many dedicated members here who really take the time to learn and share regarding the legal and technical nuances of proper mining.

I'm surprised that big-box claim clubs don't get complaints from people who want their gold giftwrapped when they get to there.
Hey, someone has to cater to the ignorant greedy masses. I'm actually glad that those private club claims exist and keep the goobers occupied... away from the real mineral locations, devoid of learning how to legally find minerals on their own, incapable of filing their own simple location claims, unable, uneducated, or just too plain lazy to make legal locatable discoveries away from their club baby pens.
No doubt those clubs have some fine and knowledgeable individuals on their rosters and memberships, but the general demographic is as I just described it... and I was being polite.
I thank the big-box clubs for providing sanctuaries where that species of miner can be isolated. KUDOS!
Remember: education is the real treasure

We will always continue on with educating people about their rights to work/enjoy our land. There is no way around needing to know land status when you are out there. Even if you are just wanting to go to the back country to hike, fish, hunt, camp, etc.....

In time attitudes change that you spoke of Swizz when given the proper information to work with and the realizations of what hard work it really is. Nothing more satisfying than being able to say you understand and have the knowledge about researching land status and get out there doing it.

Recreational Miner? This is another term I see used alot all over the net. Bad words to put together in my eyes. All I see this combination of words doing is confusing people. Recreational prospector maybe but one knows that as a recreational prospector, we have no mining rights. Right or wrong? In my eyes as a bona fide prospector/miner we have the right to extract our minerals according to the 1872 mining law. Right or wrong?

Discussions and laws on this is how we all learn and understand about these terms and topics together.


Denise

Denise your right! id like to see what a person that claims tobe a "recreational" anything do if/when they would find a vein of gold! i wonder who long they would keep using that "word"??? regardless of wiether or not youll quit your day job, when your prospecting or actively mining, your a small scale prospector or miner. the word they use "recreational" will only give the "opposition" leverage against all of us to help them stop our mining rights! some people just cant get it into their heads ! even our gubermint wants to always throw that word into whatever they write when refering to our mining rights! there is a reason for them doing so!!!

Yepper Russ I agree, Denise is right on both questions.

Recreation is not a right but the government would like us all to think that recreation is a "resource" which it's not either.

CP

Thank you Swizz and great job on taking charge of your own knowledge to further your mining adventures!
This thread has some awesome information for everyone to use.
Dig in ya'll, it's your right! Do you know how to act on it and why?

CP

I will be a recreational prospector, at least for awhile. I would really like to find a space on water west of the Denver area or in the durango area that I can file a claim on. I have been researching mining claims for sale, but I havent found one to my liking. I am ready to make my trip to CO already, but I will have to wait until yall thaw since we are in the dead of winter. Good digging to everyone.

Hi placer! I would recommend looking into areas here in Colorado that interest you. From there you can research to see if the areas of interest are open to prospecting. Good luck in all your research.

The weather has been fantastic here!

As a recreational level prospector one probably shouldn't be concerned with claim filing or buying as "recreation" does not fall into any mining activity or a valid reason to hold/buy a mining claim.

In general as a recreational level prospector folks should always remember that they are still responsible for thier own actions in the field. That is normally what most of us wish to do is be responsible and finding the correct info to do that is a big part of the battle/learning curve.

Here's an example that many folks may easily relate too.......... Our own "Free Panning and Sluicing areas" has a large open space tract of land (park) in Jefferson county listed. Everyone knows this an area where Jefferson county (private owners) allow prospecting within their open space park/rules.
Now this would also apply to any city, town, or county agency where one might wish to pan for gold in a park ........ Simply pull up the county, city or town's website to find their parks dept. Within that page you'll easily find both thier park rules and contact info should you feel the need to call and ask if panning isn't specified as allowed.

Always remember though.....county, city, or town parks (including open space parks) are PRIVATE PROPERTY. You have no "right" to recreate or pan there but you can ask permission.

Also of note to the general public.........It's against any park/open space rules (illegal) for anyone to operate a commercial venture selling goods or services on parks property without prior special use approval/permiting through the parks individual boards/depts.

Good luck out there prospecting everyone, hope this info helps you easily find some cool panning spots anytime!

CP

This is a great thread with some very important information! Hopefully those reading will benefit and be more successful in their prospecting adventures!

Dig in everyone!

Over 2,000 downloads off the mining claim lease, hope it's helping folks in the field!
Post up with any questions.

Hi, first time poster here, love all the great info and insight I'm picking up on these forums…thanks! I recently acquired a large, previously abandoned mine within view of Silver Mountain, about 10 miles south of Telluride, CO. I have a few concerns that I would appreciate ANY advice on: 1) I've heard that there are certain equipment size limitations that fall within the casual use scenario (btw…is casual use and small scale miner the same thing??). It'll be just me and a friend or two putting around, specifically, is there a horsepower limit on gas powered motors for rock crushers? Heard it was like 7 h.p., true? Or if I can carry it then it's legal? 2) There is currently no gate on the mine entrance, can I put something up or do I need any special BLM permission? How would they ever know if I put it there or the previous owner? The mine hasn't been worked since the 60's. 3) I was told that I should make BLM aware that I will be casually working the site, but I am afraid to advertise my presence lest they start harassing me, especially since there was a SF site/grey area within a mile below me. I know I have the right to be there, I guess I'm just trying to avoid becoming obvious. The site is not accessible by any roads or trails…hike up only, but tailings are visible from highway and across valley. 4) There is some light water in the mine, can I pump that out and reuse for my high banker, or will they be all over me for that if they find out? I imagine they wouldn't like me to pump out the mine and let it run down the mountainside nowadays, right?

Thanks for any and all advice!

Detectornerd

I cant answer all the questions accuratly but the water issue needs more detail. depending on what chemicalls and percentages of chemicalls are in or NOT in the water kinda determines where to go from here! if no harsh chemicalls were in the water. to highbank with this water ,it must go to a setteling basin and be allowed to slowly drain back to the stream,so not to drain and water with any trubidity back into and cloud up the water.i think this is a common ruleing or use for all of the Country.

Thanks Russau, well I was thinking about pumping it out and through my sluice as there is some runoff from the mine that has pooled a bit, so it's already sitting there you know? There are no streams within about a mile or more at the bottom of the mountain, so the water just runs down the mountain anyway as it is, I would just like to make use of the water of course. It would be smarter to just recirculate the water in tubs and dump occasionally I guess.

Thanks for any advice.

Hi detectornerd, welcome to the Colorado Prospector forums.
Thanks for the kind compliments on the site too, make yourself right at home.

There are a couple things I would suggest......
One is to join the club here. I think you could greatly benefit from club membership in the future concerning your new "ownership" of a mine. (patented I'm assuming)
Without understanding your postition (rights) as an owner you could get led astray very easily. I only mention it this way because of your course of questions to begin with, you've mixed up what are recreational rules for only specific areas already, these will not apply to you as a mine owner.

Russ is correct about highbanking run off for a normal situation where water used is assumed clean on intake.
This may not be the case with your mine water.....So my second piece of advice would be to not touch or do anything with any water or soils left at the site until you have them tested. Water tests are not all that pricey to have done.
But understand this, as a new owner of that mine, if there are any contaminates in the water or soil and you start to do "something" with the stuff (even just moving it), you've now accepted the responsibility for it!
You mentioned that as a concern, you don't want them to come down on you for it, so you should CYOA as the old saying goes. Have it tested first before you do anything.
My

Best of luck with the new mine ownership and if you're interested in club membership with the Colorado Prospector club just click on the link for the details on sign up. We'd all be honored to have your future patricipation.

Dan thats what i was meaning. about water samples, would a person take a sample of the water right off the top of the surface or lower maybe towards the bottom? my reason for asking is that the chemicals would probly be heavier than the pure water and be down lower. if a person would take a sample from the top surface, and then started pumping it out and then the chemicals started showing up.........see where im going with this?

Id like to add to that question, would you take a core soil sample to test for heavy metals as well?

Good questions.... for the water, personally I think I would take both an undisturbed sample of just the water as found, then also another after lightly stirring up the sediment on the bottom just enough to gain a turbid sample as well.
For the soil which is just the tailings of concern, not a core sample but rather just a good small sample from the tailings pile. (Maybe 2 lbs from 1 or 2 feet into the pile....dry). I'd imagine the lab will imulsify it into clean water to test for "contaminants", one of those being possibly heavy metal such as mercury.

Thanks Dan! Wise as always!

You're welcome Jessie, glad to be of help.

Here is another misnomer floating around recently........it's being said that you become a claim owner by joining a club that has claims for members to use.
THIS IS INCORRECT! Joining a club that has claims for members use DOES NOT MAKE YOU A PART CLAIM OWNER!!
Unless you are signing the claims paperwork every year you are not an owner, you are a visitor who can not be charged any fees for "entry" onto said club claims!!

Just had to air that out of me head from some of my recent reading elsewhere. Glad we keep stuff like that straight around here!