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plp.001

Jun 1 2007, 09:20 AM

According to the latest post on www.senate.ca.gov located under STATUS, it looks like AB 1032 will be heard on 6/26/07 in the Committe of Natural Resources and Water.

If you have not sent in comments, now would be a good time to do it and if you have sent in comments maybe you should send atleast one more.
Thanks
jerry

Jun 1 2007, 01:24 PM

Thanks for the update Jerry.
I've brought the info I compiled here for folks to use as info in their comments.

Originally Posted: Apr 28 2007, 10:10 AM here in the AB 1032 info Dredging thread.
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Come on ya'll.......lets get to work. PLP has asked all of us to help out.......and you can.
Take the time to read up on this and see what you think......but do it now! DO NOT HESITATE!
This kind of stuff is going on reapeatedly all across our great nation and IT DOES AFFECT YOUR LIFE LOCALLY!
As you read, you start finding the bs buried within.......

Is there any science behind their claims of dredging causing harm and destruction?!
Once again it seems that the authorities involved are either part of the problem (envirowingism) or don't care to perform their given jobs well enough to notice the bamboozelment being offered for dinner!!!!!

Here's what I came up with in my reading and research.
First off.....what's deleterious?

deleterious \del-uh-TIR-ee-us\, adjective:
Harmful; destructive; pernicious.

We all know that our activities, (small scale dredging/highbanking) are not "deleterious" to fish when activities are performed properly of course, taking into account the actual spawning season or precautions such as settling ponds for highbankers.
Many of us have discussed this very topic in the past and I will get back to the fact we do not hurt fish shortly.......

Next I noticed while reading ......the bill reads.........
The bill, which grants DFG this
authority notwithstanding other provisions of law, would allow
DFG to take timely action to close streams to suction dredging
to prevent take of listed species or prevent harm to native
trout and other sensitive species, without having to go
through the lengthy process of adopting regulations under the
Administrative Procedures Act.

Notwithstanding other provisions of law?.......So I as a citizen take that to mean that any other exsisting law that states differently pre-empts this one? (particularly any delegating specific authorities.)

The bill also mentions, vaguely, several "studies", but fail to mention exactly which they are quoting from. Don't ya' just love how they manage to forget the little tidbits.

Well here are a couple I figure are likely being used....do not know for sure but here are the studies....you decide.
This first one was done by a private firm for the USACE in San Fransico Bay. (large suction dredge) It's quoted often by the CDF&G though!
Private Firm Dredge Study-San Fransico Bay

Here's another "study" from again a private firm and it is their enviromental evaluation report for a project in California. Again....I am not sure if this one is one they are quoting this time but thought I would put a link in anyway.
Private firms enviromental evalutaion on project

Big dredge studies are great info to have......but the envirowingism groups are using these "studies", and or many others, in the courts as their "proof" that we will cause harm.
Whether it's true or not doesn't seem to be a factor in courts.

The other "study" I think they(environuts) are quoting now and have many times in the past is the FS report done by Harvey in 1999.
If you have not yet read this one, you should....very interesting.

And from here we will work back toward the fish and being harmful to them or not.

Ok, so we aren't lawyers (well most of us aren't) and most of us are not fish bioligists either.
Anyone know what scour is? How about redds.....what defines those?
Hmmmmmmmmmm...........

Well we kinda need to know those things as you see reading all this stuff.......because we are apparently destroying these and changing the entire ecosystem with a hand held nozzle!

So.....lets see we need to find some definitions. Here is a link that seems really informative on the topic of spawing salmonid.
Spawing Salmonid

From that page I found several interesting tidbits........
For Coho salmon (often used as the mentioned endangered species) the water depth is an average of 4-8 inches in redds.
Gravel size used for redds will be 5.4 inches or smaller.
And the most noticable tidbit.........TIGHT SEDIMENT IS UNSUITABLE FOR REDDS!
Ok so what is scour then.......this definition can be found in the FS Harvey99 study.
"Net scour is the difference in streambed elevation between the start and the end of the measurement period (assuming elevation decreases)."

As you read through the FS Harvey99 study you will notice the scour period measured was over half a year to cover "high water season" .....not dredging season. They did however study areas that included dredged tailings.
This quote is what they said about redds in the tailings areas.....
Quoting FSHarvey99.....

"Replication ranged from three to seven within a particular combination of stream, year, and substrate (tailings versus natural substrate). In general, replication was limited by the number of redds on tailings. We readily detected redds on
natural substrates because less periphyton covered redd materials compared with the surrounding substrate.
This difference was less apparent for redds on recently created dredge tailings, and low stability of material in tailings often yielded redds
with less strongly mounded tailspills compared with those on natural substrates. For these reasons, redds on tailings were often difficult to identify in
the absence of direct observations of spawning fish. After locating as many redds on tailings as possible, we haphazardly selected an equal number
of redds on natural substrates by making measurements at the first redds we encountered either upstream or downstream of the redds on dredge tailings."

So again, large scale dredge tailings are being studied not anything small scale.
Larger equipment would of course move larger boulders.....and yes more material.
Will your dredge suck up a 5.4 in or bigger rock?
Funny though......I think they stated that they could in fact NOT FIND THE REDDS UNLESS FISH WERE ACTIVELY SPAWING......So they haphazardly chose (guessed) with an average of the closest they could find off the tailings.

Ok so now we have a few more details on what we are supposedly destroying or will destroy.
What I saw was that tight, over compact soils are not suitable for redds.
As well......large boulders in large areas without sediment are also unsuitable. eggs need flowing oxgenated water with garvels to hold the eggs, but yet the sediment needs to be large enough for the fry to swim up and out after hatching.

The female fish when making the redd can only pick up with her tail gravels and sediment up to 10% the size of her body. (no weights of stones were mentioned)
Sediment that is too compacted with what they call fine interstitial sediment- (<0.125mm) will kill the eggs.

So when we dredge.....say it's a 4"....good size right.
We will stir up the fine interstitial sediment- (<0.125mm), collect the heaviest of all sediments and up to 4". So when Mrs. Salmon comes to make a new redd next year she will in fact be able to create a redd much more easily without the fine interstitial sediment- (<0.125mm) and heaviest particles of 4" and under!

These activities of stirring up the finer sediments not only helps the female in creating the redd but will infact insure the stability of the redd through incubation and permit those fry to surface naturally.

Whew!!!!!!!!!
K, I've rambled on for way too long!

Hope this info helps ya'll make your comments.
Do make yours please.

CP

What address(s) should we be sending to.....anyone have that list handy?

plp.001

Jun 4 2007, 09:34 AM

The addresses of the CA. State Senate Members is at the following link. You just have to click on th esenators name to get the information
http://www.senate.ca.gov/~newsen/senators/senators.htp
Jerry

Jun 5 2007, 07:59 PM

russau

Jun 6 2007, 05:45 AM

a quick and easy way to do these legislators is 1) print out the list of email addys.2) hit the first name on the list and write your letter/comment(be polite)3) send it then hit the return button and erase the first name and add the next.contnue doing this untill the complete list is done.once you have your 1st letter sent(thats the slowest part)its easy after that! it took all of 15 mins todo! and im slow!

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