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Drilling for pockets?
jimmyrig
post Jul 5 2017, 06:35 PM
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Has anyone ever attempted to use a 4ft bit to drill for pockets? I understand power tools are prohibited on public land. Just theoretical. Say I have a 4ft diamond bit and a 1/4" endoscope and a 20v max hammer drill


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johnnybravo300
post Jul 5 2017, 06:40 PM
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I didn't know power tools were prohibited on public land but that seems way less invasive than digging out an area to see what's inside. I would theoretically try that. Seems genius.


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jimmyrig
post Jul 6 2017, 05:48 AM
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Power tools are prohibited for mineral prospecting on NP/BLM land unless you get a claim and a permit.


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johnnybravo300
post Jul 6 2017, 07:14 AM
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I honestly did not know that haha. Never looked into it I guess but I always thought the drill rigs we're prospecting when they drilled core samples but maybe it takes permits to do that too. I didn't even know there was a permit for such a thing but I learn something new everyday here hehe.
I didn't realize they even had regs for hand held power tools.


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jimmyrig
post Jul 6 2017, 07:31 AM
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Unfortunately they do, though I think there should be exceptions when they are being used to lessen the footprint instead of increasing it, as in cases such as this. But I guess even getting a claim and a permit then drilling is far less work than digging an entire are up. I was in an area the other day that you couldn't even tell what had been dug and what was loose dirt or anything in between for about a solid 2 acres. This brings me to another question, do you guys think there are enough open pockets out there as opposed to collapsed ones that would warrant this type of exploration?


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post Jul 6 2017, 08:13 AM
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Hold on guys, I've not seen any law that prohibits those specific tools.....where did you find that information? There are specific "thresholds" where a POO is required but it's not with any of those tools mentioned as they would all be "hand carried equipment" and do not create any "significant surface resource disturbance". (key words are highlighted/quoted for a reason) info_grin.gif
Hand tools mentioned need no permitting on someones claim nor without a claim.

That being said, I'm thinking that this maybe some slight confusions or mixing of recreational regs/restrictions into mining claim owners rights.....they are not the same.
Recreational users who attempt to use mining laws or claim ownership/rights to justify their activities on recreational lands or during their personal recreational activities that are not related to mining create some severe problems at multiple levels! Mostly that other citizens who try to use the mismatched info incorrectly in the field meet with failed prospecting adventures that could have been successful with the proper knowledge ahead of time.

Use caution with what you hear or read folks! I'd like to see where those rules you saw were posted....by what agency and a link etc so I could take a look at them too.
I've seen many gov agencies write pure BS signs019.gif into a new regulation, does not make it legal to enforce on any actual claim owner of true field prospector acting on his or her rights! research.gif smiley-cool14.gif


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johnnybravo300
post Jul 6 2017, 12:42 PM
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I haven't found or seen it anywhere and I've read most everything I can get my hands on when it comes to this. I cant see where there'd be a surface disturbance that would warrant a permit or any BLM involvement. It sounds legit to me if you have the equipment and not a bad idea for exploring pockets.
The only problem I can see with it is if you drilled into an intact pocket and caused it's collapse or damaged it. Other than that I can't find any laws prohibiting it.


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jimmyrig
post Jul 7 2017, 04:48 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys. I went back and re-read the regs and your right I don't see it there. I think I may have seen it on a posted flyer in the Pike NF on a ranger board. I'm going to head back out there next week pending my thumb is healed enough. I swear I saw the term "power tools" somewhere.

As for the other concern, the hole I would be drilling is about a .25" . I would hope that would be small enough to prevent pocket collapse and preserve more of the pocket than digging into it. But... I'm reminded of the movie "The Core" when they drill into the giant geode... Though there is no lava above my pockets :)


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jimmyrig
post Jul 9 2017, 02:36 AM
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So I've done a bit of testing in my yard with this technique and after a few adjustments it's working pretty good considering this is clay rich soil that gets watered every day. I quickly got 4 feet down in about 20 seconds with a 9/16 flex bit. Tried to get the camera down there but since it is so tiny, one little grain of mud can mess it up.

I added rainX to the lense and it helped but not enough. So I ended up using a caisson technique that I remember seeing on the curse of oak Island. I very lightly get a pilot hole started with a 9/16 bit. then follow with a 3/4 bit. After drilling has finished I use a 3/8 white PVC drainage tube. This is my caisson where my camera can work. I run the camera through the tube up to about 2 inches from the bottom. Then I insert the tube into my drilled hole slowly and watch the screen for any null space or shiny stuff on the walls of the drilled hole.

Unfortunately there are no mineral pockets in my front lawn... but if there were I feel the clarity is good enough that I would definitely see it. I'm taking my equipment out in the field today for an initial run.


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Woody
post Jul 10 2017, 06:52 AM
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Very innovative Jimmyrig, I hope it works out for you. I could see where this type of exploratory operation would be of great value especially when looking for pockets deep into Granit. How long
does it take to drill a test hole? Woody.


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ASTROBLEME
post Jul 10 2017, 03:43 PM
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jimmyrig,

You've got a great idea. Be sure and collect the dust and small fragments the drill pulls up. Lots can be learned from a microscopic look at those "tailings". thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

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jimmyrig
post Jul 10 2017, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Woody @ Jul 10 2017, 08:52 AM) *
Very innovative Jimmyrig, I hope it works out for you. I could see where this type of exploratory operation would be of great value especially when looking for pockets deep into Granit. How long
does it take to drill a test hole? Woody.


In the ground.. just depends on what I hit. was about 5 mins for most. Drilling into granite is a bit more time consuming but allows me access to previously rock locked pockets. I did use my scope to investigate up a couple tubes. Was fun and did work well, just no Topaz...


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Woody
post Jul 11 2017, 07:14 AM
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" I did use my scope to investigate up a couple tubes. Was fun and did work well, just no Topaz..."

Well Jimmyrig, now you just reminded me of a couple of places that your scoping technic would be awesome. I've found two places that I used a stick and raked material back out of a hole in the rock.
The crevasse/hole/tube was big enough to stick my entire arm in. With my stick, I was able to get in about 4 feet. Some of the crystals I got out was the best I have ever found as far as clarity goes. I'll
have to link up with you sometime and give you some coordinates.

This "Pink" crystal came out of a smaller hole. I had to use a much shorter stick but still could not see the end of it. Both times I left with the feeling there was more still in the hole. We will have to
discuss this over a beer sometime. Woody

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jimmyrig
post Jul 13 2017, 08:47 PM
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Nice! I'm sure there is more where that came from in those holes. I have found some interesting (and scary) things with my endoscope. A little lizard will put the fear of godzilla in you through a small camera...


QUOTE (Woody @ Jul 11 2017, 09:14 AM) *
" I did use my scope to investigate up a couple tubes. Was fun and did work well, just no Topaz..."

Well Jimmyrig, now you just reminded me of a couple of places that your scoping technic would be awesome. I've found two places that I used a stick and raked material back out of a hole in the rock.
The crevasse/hole/tube was big enough to stick my entire arm in. With my stick, I was able to get in about 4 feet. Some of the crystals I got out was the best I have ever found as far as clarity goes. I'll
have to link up with you sometime and give you some coordinates.

This "Pink" crystal came out of a smaller hole. I had to use a much shorter stick but still could not see the end of it. Both times I left with the feeling there was more still in the hole. We will have to
discuss this over a beer sometime. Woody



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