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Reminder that selling material off public land without a claim is a no no and can land you in jail!
Crusty
post May 19 2016, 07:29 AM
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http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/ma...-illegal-mining


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EMac
post May 19 2016, 08:12 AM
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I haven't even attempted to sell anything I've collected, and 90% of it is from Jeffco open space. I'm ignorant here, and can't get to the case details without paying: Docket Alarm

I have so many questions about this. Chiefly, would someone come after me if I sell my Clear Creek gold?

Was he on federal property not open to mineral exploration?

Was he on a valid mining claim? If so, why isn't the claim owner going after treble the stolen values? Is that a civil court matter pending separately?

Say you've found a spot to prospect, but haven't claimed it yet; is it illegal to sell values from that location? Do you need a business license, or is there a threshold where you need one?

I know some folks have LLCs....is what you use to sell values? Does it offer other protections in this regard?

So many questions here....I need a seminar.


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CP
post May 19 2016, 10:51 AM
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A seminar eh? smiley-cool14.gif ...... I do believe that is what the whole club concept is! Your individual knowledge is paramount for your success in the field. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif Anytime you need more help on this topic Emac, remember as a club member you always have myself and the other club members to reflect upon these topics. As far as LLC's protecting against this happening......not at all will an LLC protect you from this. sadno.gif

Quick recap of what the article says even though this thread title is a little misleading to the facts.

The person in question/accused was not found guilty of mining without a claim but rather quite the opposite. He was caught red handed by the BLM as a claim jumper!(mineral trespass) stamp.gif Kudos to the BLM for nailing his ass too! He wasn't found guilty either, he plead guilty.....big difference!

As Paul used to say...."the rest of the story" also included was, the accused was previously convicted in 2009 for theft of money from the U.S. Postal service (stamp sales pocketed), as well as previous mining violations convictions with the BLM unspecified in the article. So the person has a history of being a thief and has been caught red handed. He also admitted (physically showed the BLM) more than 250 lbs of material taken off public lands without a claim......Not only did he get caught lying about the claim jumper part with intent to sell all found minerals (BLM purchased one of his finds), he also crossed a legal threshold of 250 lbs collected for personal study...that is a real legal threshold for rock/mineral sampling on open (unclaimed lands).

Great discussion topics and opportunity for others to learn WHAT NOT TO DO when prospecting in the field and after with ones finds! info_grin.gif This guys screwed up all the way around period!

Short track answers toward greed ain't the right way to go......Live to learn and love it! char092.gif You'll be the one who gets a "pay out" when done properly! And yes "pay out" can mean many things to folks rather than only $ signs!

My 2c.gif and here's the change...... the accused in the article has never been a club member of this club! Who'd have guessed. smiley-shocked003.gif eating-popcorn-03.gif




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Crusty
post May 19 2016, 11:10 AM
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All I read is that he was accused of claim jumping, which he denied. He pled guilty to "theft of federal property and unlawful mining." If this was a result of claim jumping, the charge wouldn't be theft of federal property; the minerals are owned by an individual, not the federal government. Am I missing something? :)


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EMac
post May 19 2016, 11:10 AM
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I just want to keep my ass out of a sling when the day comes I want to sell my gold. I sincerely hope to be smelting my own d'ore buttons by that point (likely a year or 2 away), so the values' sources will be varied too. Being me, I'll read the hell out of whatever I can as well to keep things on the up and up.

That wasn't an exhaustive list of questions, but just a few that came to mind. I assume at a certain point the IRS becomes a factor as well. By seminar, I'm thinking an interactive session (live) led by someone who actively profits from mining values. I had the opportunity to roll with MikeS on the way to Scratch's last year, and got a bit of a lesson on selling crystals. He also came over to my place and we attempted to do a LR2000 lesson, but the system was down that night. Face time is frequently more effective to disseminate information quickly is where I'm coming from.

That's not intended to diminish what you've put together here with this site at all! I'm still learning a ton here...I look forward to learning more about actually profiting from these endeavors!


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"All courses of action are risky, so prudence is not in avoiding danger (it's impossible), but calculating risk and acting decisively. Make mistakes of ambition and not mistakes of sloth. Develop the strength to do bold things, not the strength to suffer." ~Niccolò Machiavelli

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CP
post May 19 2016, 11:41 AM
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I hear ya' Emac, didn't think you were trying to diminish anything, unfortunately I've tried to hold actual seminars in the past but had too little response for those to come to reality. Maybe we can in the future with more response to them. I can always continue to work within the forums and personal communications for free though as I always do with any club members who inquire. Seminars take time and money to hold for "face to face" interactions, but I totally agree that they would help disseminate information quickly. Maybe we can get another "pow wow" sort of gathering this year sometime to discuss these things face to face in more detail....ie "ownership".

Ownership is what I believe to be part of the most misunderstood beginning steps prospectors in the field face........the feds do not own the lands or the minerals!! info_grin.gif They are merely OUR administrative managers (paid for by us) of those lands and have no ownership what so ever, WE THE PEOPLE OWN THAT LAND!!

smiley-cool14.gif


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