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New Mining Claim Patent Issued
Clay Diggins
post Dec 2 2015, 08:26 PM
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Congratulations to our fellow miners in Oregon!

The patent for the Garden Spot placer mining claim was finally issued.

Some hard working miners now have their own 50 acres of private land in the Siskyou National Forest and BLM managed lands.

The final cert was awarded in 1990 so it only took the BLM 25 years to get that stamp to the ink pad, stamp and sign the Patent and mail it out. Our fine employees at work!

ORMC86146 is now closed and private patented mineral property. The beauty is the proud "new" owners live on Galice Creek.

Read and Rejoice!
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Crusty
post Dec 2 2015, 08:50 PM
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Clay Diggins
post Dec 2 2015, 09:12 PM
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Link is fixed Crusty. happy112.gif
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swizz
post Dec 3 2015, 06:55 AM
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What exactly should we be celebrating here? The fact that this guy lived long enough to get his rubber stamp on a grandfathered patent application after 25 years? This changes nothing. There is still a moratorium on filing new patents for claims and not likely to change anytime soon. I'm happy for the guy but I'm not celebrating until the moratorium is lifted.


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Clay Diggins
post Dec 3 2015, 10:09 AM
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Swizz, I'm guessing you've already completed your discovery work. Proven the nature, extent and recoverable values. Analyzed and proven the marketability. Designed an efficient extraction, enrichment, transportation and sales system that can sustain variable market conditions. Completed your mineral survey. Completed your perfection proof. And prepared your application.

If you have completed that process I can almost understand why you might not be celebrating another claimants success. It's human nature to regret not being the winner of the day.

If you have not done those things you will be sitting there, like so many other mineral claimants, wondering what's next when Congress takes the non action of not voting through the funding moratorium in the next budget. That's all it will take to start the patents rolling again. Non action on the part of Congress. Seems to me non action by Congress is the norm in D.C. these days so I'm not sure why that's such a far fetched concept to so many miners.

For a little more encouragement to those who might aspire to their own Patented mineral property someday I can tell you my own extensive research has revealed that several influential Congresscritters children have maintained large holdings in mineral claims on proven mineralized deposits in some very desirable areas. Since these claims are never offered for sale or developed for their minerals after being proven I have been able to conceive of only one reason they would spend all that money and time not getting their hands dirty.

Others may have come to the same or different conclusions. Either way the possibility is, and always has been, out there that one day Congress will neglect to extend the ban on funding for the processing of Patent Applications.

I, for one, always rejoice when another mineral patent is finally granted. If nothing else it's proof that the trained people and process are still in place to, once again, begin granting patents.
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Auger
post Dec 3 2015, 10:39 PM
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Time to start raising children to fill the career seats and train them how to volunteer to do the paperwork necessary to file patents. That should get the ball rolling. With as much unemployed people we have we can find some volunteers. Hell, I'll volunteer an 8 hour day a week to slam some stamps against paper. =)

I was in the govmint, I know how it works. Gimme the badge and stamp, i'll go well above and beyond haha!


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Auger
post Dec 4 2015, 09:07 AM
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Adding to this, I think as prospectors and responsible citizens we should actually look into the WHYs of the moratorium. Somewhere I read that mineralized patented lands owned by "evil corporations" is the size of some US state, and blah blah blah...

First of all, patented lands from 1800s passed down either generation or generation or sold from prospector to business or from business to business shouldn't be any issue because We The People bought it and it is theirs (whoever actually got that land, who cares if it is $5 an acre) What the issue is now I BELIEVE is that no one wants to change the existing mining law because YOU KNOW it will be changed to benefit the big corporations and the little guys like us would get crushed. Therefore, we the little guy have been holding up an Antero Boulder with a crutch since, what, the 1920s?

As soon as the moratorium would be lifted you know the big companies with scores of lawyers and tons of money would scoop in on a free-for-all $5 land grab and unfortunately it would probably go to Chinese and Russian companies based on what economic changes I am seeing here in Colorado. (Not as obvious in the Eastern Appalachian states with all those trees) The little guys like us would be so lucky as to get any of the scraps, there would be suits and mineral surveyors and heavy equipment crawling our mountains like ants, and our National Natural Resources would star being depleted and sold off to other parts of the world, effectively lowering our National Security. Then there is naturally the issue of mine tailings and toxic processing methods. I think that's only a couple of items off a bigger list.

What we should focus on especially during the winter period, is to devise creative ways to be able to change the existing mining law to benefit United States citizens BEFORE corporate entities, and limit or disallow foreign interest held corporations from extracting and depleting our land.

We should focus on establishing a reasonable land price based on size of entity and do not allow patent transfers for at least 2 years to discourage scalping. Let's say if it is just myself land price is $500 an acre. If I was a partnership, the land price is $1500 reflecting getting more skin in the game since a group of people is more serious than a lone prospector. If you are a corporate entity, you are able to use tax advantages and write offs among other things so unfortunately it is $10,000 an acre for you. This sucks, but land in Colorado is commonly more than $25,000 an acre and businesses that aren't in mining don't seem to have a problem there. Just an example. I have businesses and it sounds fair to me.

Reflecting on concerns for the environment, we really need to compose a panel of prospectors to agree on all these things. My suggestion of topics would be things like:
As a small prospector I don't use cyanide or anything carcinogenic or toxic to environments. So the pollution part of environmental concerns does not apply to me. However, if I went around digging holes all over the place, eventually there will be a pocked surface and it would become dangerous for wildlife. To address this, let's say with a mining claim patent issued on the land you must not allow holes open with no work done on them more than 30 days, or covered with some kind of RealTree covering that would support an elk. I am sure that would be costly and encourage people to fill in their holes.
For those with dredges and nozzles over 3" - i've never seen the destructive power of these things so I am not going to comment but theres a topic.
Would need to address heavy equipment and leaking diesel and oil and hydraulic fluids.
And of course the big operations which cost an average of over $400million to start have big money behind them that can afford even more burden from We The People. For the benefits they receive and being able to write off all this with tax payer money, we need to front load the big corporations and conglomerates with the burned of environmental remediation. If any infractions occur there must be immediate shutdown until the issue is resolved, with government and private entity oversight. They will pay fees to pay for these inspections and all that so it isn't immediately shifted to the tax payer. Someone has to fork over some big skin in the form of cash payment. The message needs to be clear that if you dump toxic chemicals in our water we will give you no quarter, we will strip your assets, lock you down and sell off all your equipment to make a point. Your entity will go broke and your shareholders shamed for their future.

I don't know, this is a start. I just started prospecting, but I know how action and suggestions to fix what we see as problems will quickly have effect in many more ways than inaction and talking about the issue with no power to change anything. Politicians do NOT listen to complaining. However, if you can describe them a situation in which they look like a hero and can gain more supporters... and give them solutions to several problems... and possible outcomes of these changes... Damnit, Jim, they listen! =P


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Crusty
post Dec 4 2015, 10:05 AM
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Biggest reason I've heard they established the moratorium is it basically turned in to a way for non-miners to secure prime real estate in places you can't buy it. Make a "discovery"; patent the claim, and then build a sweet cabin on prime formerly public land, and never "mine" again. Look how many non-patented claims aren't actively mined now or are used for club claims or for profit ventures, which is also in violation of the law. Enforcement is virtually non-existent, so folks took advantage of the opportunity to secure real property.


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Clay Diggins
post Dec 4 2015, 05:35 PM
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There's a heck of a lot of work and time involved in patenting a mining claim. At least 5 years and thousands of dollars in required development before a claimant becomes eligible to begin the process.

Foreign individuals and companies can't own mining claims much less take them to patent so that's never been an issue.

Prospectors aren't eligible for patents either. Simply prospecting and making a claim doesn't give you anything but a possessory right against subsequent prospectors.

Discovery work. Proving the nature, extent and recoverable values. Proving marketability. Designing an efficient extraction, enrichment, transportation and sales system that can sustain variable market conditions. Completing a mineral survey. Completing perfection proof. And preparing an application. All that can easily cost more than purchasing private surface estate rights in the same location.

The last Mineral Survey I studied cost more than $250,000. You must have completed a Mineral Survey before you can make a patent application.

Making mining claims for residences was already addressed in the 1955 Mining Act and the 1960 Residence Act. That argument against patents has legally been a non starter for more than 50 years.

Mineral Patents haven't been easy to get in our lifetimes. There are good reasons not to get a patent. Like property taxes and increased regulations, reduced access rights and limited resource rights. Applying for a patent is neither cheap nor easy but owning both the surface and subsurface land estate is ownership of actual land. That's a much better deal than the real estate most people end up spending a lifetime paying for in my opinion. Then again the real estate is a lot less work...
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swizz
post Dec 5 2015, 04:18 AM
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Yes, I understand what it takes to achieve patent, just not holding my breath for that moratorium to be lifted.


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CP
post Jan 10 2016, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Dec 3 2015, 06:55 AM) *
What exactly should we be celebrating here? The fact that this guy lived long enough to get his rubber stamp on a grandfathered patent application after 25 years? This changes nothing. There is still a moratorium on filing new patents for claims and not likely to change anytime soon. I'm happy for the guy but I'm not celebrating until the moratorium is lifted.


I agree Swizz, not anything to jump up and down about. confused0082[1].gif Seems like an absolutely ridiculous time frame ..... 25 years gad zooks!! signs019.gif

Very good points as well Auger, and I'll add a bit to that. Not that I think the mining law needs changing, maybe it does, but most importantly, we as citizens first need to learn/find what exists in the law books. Which much of it is helpful I believe or written with mining in mind as to the mining law and pertaining USC's/CFR's etc. Before we set off to make big changes or improvements, first we must know what is there already and use it to our advantage not only now but to continue or change anything for future benefit of the citizens.....otherwise like you said, only big money/corporations/government will prevail/profit while citizens get the shaft! stamp.gif stop.gif

On a side note for the moratorium itself.......If I remember my reading correctly research.gif , much of what set off the movement to set the moratorium in place by 1993 was the misuse of patenting processes during the 60's & 70's by the now huge conglomerate ski corps to secure and then privatize vast parcels of land out of the FS lands (1,000's of acres). These are now the most popular winter tourist destinations in the state making billions per year. Still got what they wanted even though the moratorium went in place, deed was done literally and ski areas now have lots of private land to charge access for per head!
I wonder where the eco-whacko environmentalist like to recreate in winter?......think any are ski bums?! smiley-shocked003.gif slaphead.gif

Not trying to poke buttons at any skiers here poke.gif , just telling the story as I remember it and what motivated the moratorium movement back then. 2c.gif


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Gene Kooper
post Jan 16 2016, 12:06 AM
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CP,

Regarding the moratorium on patents, I recall hearing that the Clinton Administration, particularly Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt was mad at Congress for their inaction in revising the mining laws to add a royalty. There wasn't enough votes to change the mining law, but there was enough votes in the House to impose a moratorium. I was surprised that the moratorium wasn't ended during the Bush Administration.

There was a legislative effort to change the mining law to include royalties and fair market value rather than the $2.50/acre for placer claims and $5.00/acre for lode claims. The legislation was sponsored by Nevada Congressman Jim Gibbons and surprisingly passed the House. The Senate pulled a parliamentary "trick" to avoid having the bill come up for a vote. This happened near the end of Bush's Presidency.

Here is a link to a September 7, 1995 New York Times article regarding Babbitt's disdain for the 1872 Mining Law and a little bit on the differing views of the Senate and House.

Babbitt Blames Old Mining Law in Ceding a Potential Windfall

What I do know is that the last Mineral Surveyor Examination was administered in 1986 in Anchorage, Alaska. The Nevada State BLM office is in charge of the Mineral Surveyor Program. I've quietly hoped that eventually there would be a demand for additional U.S. Mineral Surveyors and the BLM would give another exam. The last time I checked there were 39 U.S. Mineral Surveyors with active appointments. They are dying off quickly.

The last mineral survey conducted in Colorado was approved April 6, 2006 (MS 20931). It is the only mineral survey approved in Colorado where GPS equipment was used. The mineral survey before that is located in the Sugar Loaf Mining District west of Boulder. It was approved in 1997. Things don't appear to be much different then than they are now. The claimant named the lode claim included in that survey (MS 20930), "They Change the Law As I Go Lode". I suppose it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Here's a link to the plat on the BLM's GLO Records web site They Change the Law As I Go Lode
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Clay Diggins
post Jan 17 2016, 02:59 PM
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I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience here Gene. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

I too worry about the future of the Mineral Surveyor program. I think the lack of interest on the part of claimants is due to misunderstanding of the nature of the funding moratorium on processing patent applications and the misunderstanding that perfection of mining claims, including mineral surveys, are still possible and desirable.

The process of claim perfection has been supplanted by SEC regulations on disclosure and perfecting a public offer. Wrong regulations for miners but just right for paper mining interest sellers. I'd like to see that trend reversed too but there is little incentive for juniors or big mining companies to pursue patents anymore. The current practice of creating purpose built corporations to mine a deposit carries much less risk once the deposit is depleted.

The Mineral Surveyor Examinations need to be reinstated. As you point out the qualified surveyors are literally dying off and at some point soon it may be impossible to accomplish a mineral survey due to a lack of qualified surveyors. Even if the moratorium were to be lifted without qualified mineral surveyors we would not be able to submit most otherwise complete mineral patent applications. That would be a moratorium by fiat and a true tragedy.

The moratorium on funding the processing of patent applications is renewed with each budget so there are several opportunities to reverse that trend during any mine's lifetime. The prior issue of the BLM dragging it's feet whenever it's employees don't approve of the task at hand is a bigger issue in my opinion. Patent processing had slowed to a trickle in the 1980's well before the moratorium was originally enacted. That issue needs to be addressed before patents can be a reality again even if the funding for processing is reinstated.

I wish I could share Jim Crume's 2012 article "Field Notes: Revival of Mineral Surveys" in Professional Surveyor Magazine here but it seems that's now been taken offline. In that article he gives a brief description of his 2012 Mineral Survey for a large mining project in Arizona as well as noting that new survey standards were created for the BLM State Cadastral Office.
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Gene Kooper
post Jan 17 2016, 04:20 PM
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For Clay Diggins and CP,

I can add some color commentary regarding the recent Arizona mineral survey, Mr. Crume's article and information on the mining company (they were a client), but I don't want to hijack this thread. I know that I'm the odd duck on this site. I'm not a prospector (at least not in the classical sense). I don't own any mineral rights. And, except for a small collection of mineral specimens and some killer ammonites I not a collector either. I am a geologist and land surveyor providing consulting services to mining companies, government agencies and patented mining claim owners (I do occasionally stake mining claims for mining companies).

If CP prefers, I can start a new thread on the "revival" of mineral surveys.
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Clay Diggins
post Jan 17 2016, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (Gene Kooper @ Jan 17 2016, 04:20 PM) *
For Clay Diggins and CP,

I can add some color commentary regarding the recent Arizona mineral survey, Mr. Crume's article and information on the mining company (they were a client), but I don't want to hijack this thread. I know that I'm the odd duck on this site. I'm not a prospector (at least not in the classical sense). I don't own any mineral rights. And, except for a small collection of mineral specimens and some killer ammonites I not a collector either. I am a geologist and land surveyor providing consulting services to mining companies, government agencies and patented mining claim owners (I do occasionally stake mining claims for mining companies).

If CP prefers, I can start a new thread on the "revival" of mineral surveys.


I understand your concerns with Mr. Crume's "revival" claim but I wasn't going to bring that to the issue of mineral patents. Sometimes a different perspective on the facts can be a matter of ummm - colloquialism.

Mr Crume is one of the few practicing qualified mineral surveyors left and as his practice is in my neighborhood I find it expedient to overlook his opinions on "history".

Nuff said? music037.gif
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