Claim Access Options

[moontan]

Thanks Swizz. As a newbie, I was just given solid advice. I am amazed and impressed with the vastness of this site. The information to gather is priceless. I shall continue!

Tim

[jhidek]

OK, so I hate to be the one that brings up an old post, but now I'm running onto the same with one of my claims. My claim on Mt Buckhorn has been nothing but hassle with claimjumpers and vandals, but the biggest problem I'm having right now is getting access to the locked gates on High Drive. High dr was closed to motorized RECREATIONAL traffic, and if I have to park at the bottom and haul all my equipment in on my back every time not only does it take time, but I am also disabled (spinal injury, with multiple reconstructions). Each gate has multiple locks daisy chained belonging to city of CO Springs and USFS. High Drive is also known as Forest Development Road (FDR) 380. I have visited multiple offices and left multiple messages with different departments to no avail. Somehow got passed off on a transfer to the GIS office who actually told me "unofficially, I'd just cut a link and add your lock on too. Access is your right as a valid claimholder". Anyone have any ideas? Back in AZ this was no problem, the USFS office met me at the gate to unlock it and let me add mine in to the loop

[swizz]

The FS is required to allow you vehicular access by law for mining purposes. Mining only, no recreation.
My claims are on BLM managed lands (fortunately) and there is a locked gate within my claim boundaries. I visited my regional BLM HQ and told them that I require access for mining purposes and they immediately complied. They scheduled to meet me there and allowed me to add my own lock.... which I dog-tagged with my CMC numbers. No problem.
I'm not sure why you're getting the runaround from the FS. Make sure that you are inquiring at the specific "regional" FS Office that is responsible for the region of your particular claim(s).

[jhidek]

Thats exactly what I did in AZ and everything was great. I went to the one here in the Springs on Weber and spoke with Jeff and they pushed me to the county, who pushed me to FS, then to Assessor when I said I just came from FS. My claim is like 10 miles from the FS office too

[Clay Diggins]

I have visited multiple offices and left multiple messages with different departments to no avail. Somehow got passed off on a transfer to the GIS office who actually told me "unofficially, I'd just cut a link and add your lock on too. Access is your right as a valid claimholder".

You have your answer. It's called self help in the law and it's perfectly legal as long as you 1. Have the Right and 2. Don't breach the peace.


self-help definition

n. 1) obtaining relief or enforcing one's rights without resorting to legal action, such as repossessing a car when payments have not been made, retrieving borrowed or stolen goods, demanding and receiving payment, or abating a nuisance (such as digging a ditch to divert flooding from another's property). Self-help is legal as long as it does not "break the public peace" or violate some other law (although brief trespass is common).




As Davy Crockett said 'Remember these words when I am dead. First be sure you're right, then go ahead.'

[swizz]

Thats exactly what I did in AZ and everything was great. I went to the one here in the Springs on Weber and spoke with Jeff and they pushed me to the county, who pushed me to FS, then to Assessor when I said I just came from FS. My claim is like 10 miles from the FS office too

Here is my suggestion. Go to the FS office that is responsible for management in that region. Do not ask them any questions... instead, "inform them" that you will be adding a lock to that particular gate for mining purposes, zero recreation... strictly mining. If they offer to send a forester or laborer to meet you there and unlock the gate to add your lock, that's great. If not, "inform them" that you will be using a bolt cutter to breach their chain and daisy chain your lock. Put a dog tag on your lock with your CMC numbers. Done deal.
This access is well within your mining RIGHTS.

[jhidek]

So what I'm up against now, is City of Colorado Springs that has control of High Dr and they are the ones who shut it down under the "authority" of parks and rec. The parks and rec manager says they will NOT give access to the road through the gate and to walk like everyone else (I'm disabled...). Scott Abbott is the parks and rec manager, he does not care that multiple laws grant me the RIGHT to access as it does not fall under recreational use and if I breach their chain to add my own lock they will prosecute for destruction of park property. If my vehicles are seen on the closed road they will be impounded, and I will be fined and prosecuted.

[Coalbunny]

Hmmm. Who owns the land your claims are on? Who owns the right of way the road is on? What does the USFS say?
This would be a very entertaining legal battle, if it happened to someone that had the resources to fight the city of CS.

[swizz]

So what I'm up against now, is City of Colorado Springs that has control of High Dr and they are the ones who shut it down under the "authority" of parks and rec. The parks and rec manager says they will NOT give access to the road through the gate and to walk like everyone else (I'm disabled...). Scott Abbott is the parks and rec manager, he does not care that multiple laws grant me the RIGHT to access as it does not fall under recreational use and if I breach their chain to add my own lock they will prosecute for destruction of park property. If my vehicles are seen on the closed road they will be impounded, and I will be fined and prosecuted.

My advice was based on the premise that the access road in question was on NFS managed (publicly owned) land. Maybe I misunderstood earlier in the thread. You are stating that it is on private property (City Of Colorado Springs). That is an entirely different scenario. To my knowledge they (private property owners) are not bound by law to grant you vehicular access via a road within their property. You stated that the road is designated as FDR which means that it is likely owned by USFS and designated for USFS purposes (forest development). I'm not sure that the USFS is bound by law to grant you use of their road as it crosses private property. Since the FDR road is situated on private property I don't know that you would be guaranteed 'easement' of vehicular travel. USFS may have some kind of deal arranged with the City for limited use of that road, who knows? This should have been strongly considered prior to staking (or acquiring) the mining claim in question. Dan may have to chine in on this one. Is your claim surrounded by private property? If not, there may be an alternative route on public owned land that could be improved for your purposes.

[johnnybravo300]

It's not unlawful if there is no law. If there is a law then fight that. If there no law then do your thing and just deal with parks and rec when you need to have a bake sale.
Parks and rec has no authority over anything.

[Crusty]

It's not unlawful if there is no law. If there is a law then fight that. If there no law then do your thing and just deal with parks and rec when you need to have a bake sale.
Parks and rec has no authority over anything.

If the city owns the land, they absolutely have the legal right to restrict access; it is private property. It isn't public land and granting access to public land on the other side of their property isn't a requirement.

[swizz]

johnnybravo,
There are laws that protect private property and that is what is in question. Parks & Rec has delegated authority to enforce any rules/regulations pertaining to their designated enforcement area(s). In most cases (if not all) "rules/regulations" are indeed "law" if you are engaged in activities on private property.

[jhidek]

My claim is on BLM land in Pike NF, as is the majority of the road. The gate is on what was (until they closed it) a regular public traveled road. It was also a public road long before the area at their end of it becoming a city park (Bear Creek). Part of the trail across my claim was also the historic first "road" to the top of Pike's Peak.

[jhidek]

And yes, the road in question IS fdr380

[Crusty]

My claim is on BLM land in Pike NF, as is the majority of the road. The gate is on what was (until they closed it) a regular public traveled road. It was also a public road long before the area at their end of it becoming a city park (Bear Creek). Part of the trail across my claim was also the historic first "road" to the top of Pike's Peak.

Ah, I get it now... I forgot they don't plan on re-opening High Drive after the flood damage.