Closed area on Ark.? Options

[leonard]

Thanks CP, The expert from the Colorado school of mines has confirmed that the forest services has the right to close this area and does have the right to close any area in the NF that has been withdrawn from mineral rights as they see fit.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but, One of the things that was said by both John and Meigan was that it is to difficult to serperate what is a rec-panner and a miner because they said that even a rec-panner would more than likely sell the gold they find instead of keeping it for personal use, this is more than likely true.

And John stated that he doesn't consider a rec-panner some one who uses anything other than a gold pan, guess that makes sence. And as mentioned in the other posts that the ones abusing the area made it look bad for the rest, thus closing any mining activities all together in this little area.

Their opinion also made me think as to how I concider my self as well (rec-panner?), WELL, I guess I can call my self a part time greenhorn-prospector (for now, as I have jumped into this with both feet), as I will only be out once in awhile PROSPECTING and if by some chance I happen to find the mother load , I would then look into filing a claim, and only then could I call myself a miner, just my opinion. But I do see were the term "recreational" could do more harm than good for the mining community, thus I will never use the term recreational in the same sentance as mining/prospecting.

I want to thank every one who chimed in on the subject.

I've been prospecting for a lot of years. I've never considered myself a "recreational prospector" When I'm out there I'm serious about it and if I would happen to strike the mother lode, I'd still consider myself a prospector.

Around Labor Day, we may open our claims on the arkansas for a few days. They are better than the one you've been talking about anyway. We filed on 40 acres above Elephant Rock quite a few years ago. We didn't get it because of the withdrawl and we didn't follow up and amend the filing because we got the claim we wanted anyway.

Leonard

[Coalbunny]

Ok, my piece.

Jon told me that recreational prospecting is illegal. Not just down there along the Arkansas north of Puny Veesta, but all throughout the San Isabel District. IOW no where, according to him, can I pan just for giggles. Or sluice. Or dredge. It's for commercial projects only. I asked him how is this enforced and he said it's very difficult because there are no real guidelines. But he did point the finger at the BLM, however.

Later on I'll provide some better details on that. I will say that Jon knows that I study sediments and stream mechanics. And according to him, I can't.

I am led to believe that I could face getting arrested.


Which means I'll do it anyway.

[leonard]

Ok, my piece.

Jon told me that recreational prospecting is illegal. Not just down there along the Arkansas north of Puny Veesta, but all throughout the San Isabel District. IOW no where, according to him, can I pan just for giggles. Or sluice. Or dredge. It's for commercial projects only. I asked him how is this enforced and he said it's very difficult because there are no real guidelines. But he did point the finger at the BLM, however.

Later on I'll provide some better details on that. I will say that Jon knows that I study sediments and stream mechanics. And according to him, I can't.

I am led to believe that I could face getting arrested.


Which means I'll do it anyway.

I'm a commercial project looking for the location of my next commercial project. I will pan, sluice, highbank, and dredge in the preliminary stages of locating my next commercial venture. I will be searching on unclaimed locations open to mineral entry.

Leonard

[traddoerr]

Carl, Thanks for the info. I to had gotton the same response from John in our first conversation, but when I asked him were I could find this law he said it was a policy of his district, I said he was taking a big chance of getting his personal in trouble.

I found out today that ANY federal goverment emlpoyee that abusses the law or infractures it can be charged with a Felony! what this means is if you are out doing what you have the legal right to do and you are harrased and or they force upon you, they are commiting a crime, and you may call the local authoritys to press charges or have them possibly arrested, this advise came from a legal expert that works for the goverment and said it is in the USC, I'm currently looking this one up.

John/Meigan also mentioned that they didn't approve of the way the BLM was allowing mining activitys on areas that was closed to mineral claims, but there is nothing they can do about it.

This legal expert also mentioned that it might be a good idea if issues keep coming up to contact our local reps and complain or file complaints with the head of USFS on the individual.

All and all I believe that the term "recreational" should not be used any more with association to prospecting/mining/gold panning, this may help keep any more confussion from accuring in the future, Lesson I have now learned. So I am just going to go out and enjoy prospecting.

[swizz]

All and all I believe that the term "recreational" should not be used any more with association to prospecting/mining/gold panning, this may help keep any more confusion from occurring in the future, Lesson I have now learned. So I am just going to go out and enjoy prospecting.

This statement puts you WAY ahead of the game.
It's definitely refreshing to hear someone interested in learning about our rights, laws, and 'digging-in' to the world of prospecting properly. Too many new prospectors tend to try and hit the ground running with a shovel, without the proper information or guidance. Running with that new shovel can result in stumbling... often legally harming one's self and/or others.
We all appreciate your approach. Stay on the information track and you won't be disappointed.

[traddoerr]

Thanks SWIZZ, When ever I get interested in something I always research it as much as possible.

Leonard, thanks also for your comments, I hope you'll keep every one posted on if/when you open your claim, that would be a great experience for myself and family.

[russau]

there are some people that just keep saying that they are "recreational" even when you tell them the facts about it! STUBERN IS AS STUBERN DOES! sometimes theres just no help for these kind of people!

All and all I believe that the term "recreational" should not be used any more with association to prospecting/mining/gold panning, this may help keep any more confussion from accuring in the future, Lesson I have now learned. So I am just going to go out and enjoy prospecting.

[leonard]

Thanks SWIZZ, When ever I get interested in something I always research it as much as possible.

Leonard, thanks also for your comments, I hope you'll keep every one posted on if/when you open your claim, that would be a great experience for myself and family.

I should be there around Labor Day. I'll post when the actual dates are available. We have a great camping area on our claim so it makes for a good camping time.

Leonard

[traddoerr]

I'll keep an eye open for the post.

[OklaPony]

Ok, my piece.

Jon told me that recreational prospecting is illegal. Not just down there along the Arkansas north of Puny Veesta, but all throughout the San Isabel District. IOW no where, according to him, can I pan just for giggles. Or sluice. Or dredge. It's for commercial projects only. I asked him how is this enforced and he said it's very difficult because there are no real guidelines. But he did point the finger at the BLM, however.

Later on I'll provide some better details on that. I will say that Jon knows that I study sediments and stream mechanics. And according to him, I can't.

I am led to believe that I could face getting arrested.


Which means I'll do it anyway.

Wow, this is a very interesting thread. It looks like I'm going to be able to make a high country trip this year and, while the bulk of my time will be spent fishing, I was planning on using a half-day or two washing off rocks just in case I happen to stumble on to a good spot. I suppose I'll have to be careful where I take my pan, huh?

[traddoerr]

Oklapony, as long as the area is not with drawn from mineral rights and there are no claims by all means pan, sluice what ever ya want just don't say the fraze "recreational" with anything that has to do with prospecting/mining, they can't do anything then.

And report any one who harrasses you to the local sheriff's dept. Got to keep the pressure on them to let them know that they aren't completely in charge. Best of luck on finding some color and big fish !

[ASTROBLEME]

Perhaps the phrase "casual use exploration activities" is what folks should use...(i.e., activities that cause no more than a minimal disturbance to the surface resources and do not involve the use of mechanized earth-moving equipment, explosives, the construction of access roads, drill pads, or the use of toxic or hazardous materials).

ASTROBLEME

[Coalbunny]

Welllllll....... Actually guys, "recreational" is just a slang term for something that has literally been happening for centuries.

Very rarely will you find someone that makes their sole income, or even the majority of it, from prospecting. Yeah they are out there, but they are rare.

Even in the 1800's when Leadville wasn't even born yet, the Tabor's came to Oro and set up a store. Horace Tabor made his fortune off of mining, yet he himself rarely did anything more than grubstake or buy claims. Many people were in the same spot- there is a certain amount of entertainment in prospecting, but generally not enough to warrant doing it as a full time job. Thus they were cowboys, ranchers, farmers, doctors, lawyers, Ladies of the Evening, store owners, barkeeps, piano players, sheriffs and bank robbers. Almost everyone back then, and now, has a formal mode of occupation.

So when the government says they ban recreational prospecting, they are banning us in reenacting our heritage, our lineage, the work of our forefathers.

Me, I am engaged in studies that require me to pan. I find gold, yes, but it has been documented for decades through the USFS and BLM as well as WYGS and a few colleges that my studies pertain to sediments and the actions that create their depositional structure. So not finding gold doesn't break my heart. Finding gold, yeah I like it. Big wow. And I have warned rangers in the past do not interfere with my studies. That actually drags in a myriad of state and federal laws, and I have gone to the mat before on those, and won. I won then and I'll win again.

[OklaPony]

Oklapony, as long as the area is not with drawn from mineral rights and there are no claims by all means pan, sluice what ever ya want just don't say the fraze "recreational" with anything that has to do with prospecting/mining, they can't do anything then.

And report any one who harrasses you to the local sheriff's dept. Got to keep the pressure on them to let them know that they aren't completely in charge. Best of luck on finding some color and big fish !

Well, I'm at least fairly confident in the fishing department since I've got a good track record and am fortunate enough to have fantastic water available in which to dip my flies. My dirt washing skills, however, are not quite so refined. That, coupled with the slow pace that us visiting flatlanders should maintain in order to preserve our health, means I definitely won't be moving any mountains but I do have a couple of areas in mind that may well provide the opportunity for both endeavors.

Welllllll....... Actually guys, "recreational" is just a slang term for something that has literally been happening for centuries.

Very rarely will you find someone that makes their sole income, or even the majority of it, from prospecting. Yeah they are out there, but they are rare.

Even in the 1800's when Leadville wasn't even born yet, the Tabor's came to Oro and set up a store. Horace Tabor made his fortune off of mining, yet he himself rarely did anything more than grubstake or buy claims. Many people were in the same spot- there is a certain amount of entertainment in prospecting, but generally not enough to warrant doing it as a full time job. Thus they were cowboys, ranchers, farmers, doctors, lawyers, Ladies of the Evening, store owners, barkeeps, piano players, sheriffs and bank robbers. Almost everyone back then, and now, has a formal mode of occupation.

So when the government says they ban recreational prospecting, they are banning us in reenacting our heritage, our lineage, the work of our forefathers.

Me, I am engaged in studies that require me to pan. I find gold, yes, but it has been documented for decades through the USFS and BLM as well as WYGS and a few colleges that my studies pertain to sediments and the actions that create their depositional structure. So not finding gold doesn't break my heart. Finding gold, yeah I like it. Big wow. And I have warned rangers in the past do not interfere with my studies. That actually drags in a myriad of state and federal laws, and I have gone to the mat before on those, and won. I won then and I'll win again.

Interesting field of study you got there, CB. Is this connected with environmental impact and/or water quality studies, perhaps? Or just simply the physics of what settles where and why it does so?

[Coalbunny]

EIS, no. Water quality, no. Hydrophysics, somewhat. I am merely fascinated by stream mechanics. Not just how stuff settles, but the transport and dissemination of various sediments.