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Buying a claim
ColoradoProspect...
post Oct 14 2010, 05:56 AM
Post #16


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Hi Rich,

Welcome to the Colorado Prospector forum and make yourself right at home browsing around. We'll all be looking forward to your future participation.

Counties can not charge "taxes" on location claims though as there hasn't been any mineral survey to determine value of the "property" to tax. Without a value assesed to the property itself (surveyed minerals/deposit for location claims) then they couldn't determine a tax.
If the county is calling it a tax then their wording would be incorrect and it should be stated as a "fee" rather than a tax.

Good luck on your hunt for claims to buy and we hope ya' find a sweet one too! Just be careful to double check/verify any info about a claim you wish to buy.

CP


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Rich
post Oct 14 2010, 04:57 PM
Post #17


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Thanks for the welcome.

Clear Creek County has a listing of property owners who are delinquent on taxes on mining claim properties. I'm assuming property tax. What other tax or fee would it be for?

Rich

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Rich
post Oct 14 2010, 05:09 PM
Post #18


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I just found this this thread explaining the different types of claims. One site that I read a couple evenings ago stated that most claims in Colorado are patented and not unpatented. The claims I have looked at are patented.

Rich
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ColoradoProspect...
post Oct 14 2010, 05:18 PM
Post #19


Master Mucker!
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From: Colorado
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Hi again Rich,

You are very welcome and sorry for the misunderstanding. I assumed you meant a "location claim" rather than a patented mining claim.
If the property is listed on the counties deliquent tax sale then it's patented and the "tax" is in fact property taxes that are behind.
Best of luck to you at the tax sale too, hopefully you get the winning bid on the leins sought.

CP


--------------------
CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com

IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT!
MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!!



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/[__CP___CLUB__]--[_______]-‘[______]-‘[_______]
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Rich
post Oct 14 2010, 08:39 PM
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Hey,

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure that my limited understand of the claims was right or wrong. I am very new at the claims and trying to figure out what is what.

Over the winter I plan to do a lot of reading and figure out how and where to pan. Take my kids out, do a little fishin' and pannin'.

Rich
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old gold miner
post Dec 17 2010, 03:26 PM
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WHAT TO LOOK FOR IF YOU'RE THINKING OF BUYING A MINING CLAIM
Unscrupulous sellers will try to sell you unpatented property they don't even own! At the time of locating, Claimants of unpatented property need to file their notice with the County and with the BLM...
1) Any unpatented placer mining claim - recorded with the appropriate county Recorder - will have an "instrument" number. It's a number the county Recorder stamps on the original Location Notice at the time of recording.
2) Any unpatented placer mining claim recorded with the appropriate State office of the BLM will have a BLM mining claim (MC) serial number. For instance, CAMC for California, ORMC for Oregon, etc..
Ask for both. Any legitimate owner - should be able to provide you with both. They should be able to provide you with the BLM telephone number so you can verify the information, too. If they can't ( or won't) - BEWARE.
To insure a placer claim is situated on public domain land - open to mineral entry - request the seller provide you with a legible copy of the official BLM MASTER TITLE PLAT (MTP) of the applicable Township, Range & Section(s), with the claim boundary clearly depicted on it. An MTP is the official federal record of land status. It will stand up in court as fact, as nothing else will.
Often placer claims are staked by the inexperienced, doing so with nothing more than National Forest and/or a topographic map - in hand. Novices often make the mistaken assumption that simply because land is situated within a National Forest, that it is open to mineral entry. National Forest maps depict lands under the jurisdiction of the USFS. They do not depict many types of various reservations, proposed withdrawals, existing withdrawals, proposed land exchanges, lands conveyed back to the USFS - without mineral rights, municipal watersheds, or any other lands - not open to mineral entry. A BLM MTP shows all lands withdrawn from -or open to mineral entry.
The type of mining claim is critical. Because a "placer" claim grants you the exclusive rights to placer minerals - only. A "Lode" claim grants you the exclusive rights to lode minerals - only. The two types of claims are distinctly different, as well as located and described differently.
Novices selling a placer property often describe the property as containing, prospect pits, open cuts, trenches, tunnels and shafts on veins, lodes or ledges of solid rock. Meaning - they are "lode" deposits.
"A placer discovery will not sustain a lode location, nor a lode discovery a placer location." Cole v. Ralph, 1920, 40 S.Ct. 321, 252 U.S. 286, 64 L.Ed. 567.
How a placer mining claim is described, is critical. Because, if it is described incorrectly, that may be a fatal defect.
~With rare exception, all placer claims on surveyed lands must be described by aliquot part legal description.
~On unsurveyed lands, mining claims must be described by a metes and bounds description.
~On surveyed lands, a rare exception that may justify a metes & bounds description is certain types of placer deposits (radically meandering bench & gulch deposits), that are not practical to locate by aliquot part legal description, because in doing so, it would force the claimant to include excessive non-mineral land, as each 10-acre aliquot part of a placer claim must be mineral-in-character, in order to be valid.
Novices often have neither the expertise to correctly survey and measure a true metes and bounds described claim, nor actually do so, by placing any, or every corner in its correct position in mountainous terrain.
Metes and bounds means a method of describing a parcel of land that does not conform to the rectangular U.S. Public Land Survey System, using compass bearings and distances from a known point to a specified point on the parcel and then by using a continuous and sequential set of compass bearings and distances beginning at the point of beginning, continuing along and between the corners or boundary markers of the parcel's outer perimeter, until returning to the point of beginning.
The most common blunder novice claim locators make, when attempting to utilize a metes and bounds description is this; Suppose a placer gold bearing small river channel meanders northerly in a 180 degree horse shoe shaped curve, over a half mile distance. The novice then describes the claim - supposedly - covering that whole gold bearing river channel gravel deposit as;
Beginning at post #1, thence 400 feet southerly across the river to Post #2, thence following the curve of the river - 2640 feet to Post #3, thence 400 northerly across the river to Post #4, thence following the curve of the river 2640 feet back to Post #1, the place of beginning.
Bear in mind that, a legitimate "compass bearing" is by three hundred sixty (360) "degree's" (azimuth), normally split into ninety (90) degree quadrants (90° from north to east, 90° from east to south, 90° from south to west, and 90° from west back to north. Today, azimuths are often stated in terms of 360°, the full circle of the compass rather than quadrants. A modern statement of the azimuth of "S 70° W" would be 250°; degrees are always counted in a clockwise direction from compass north.
To the experienced eye, the obvious defects are that "southerly - northerly" are not actual compass bearings. Nor is "following the curve of the river - 2640 feet", a continuous and sequential set of compass bearings and distances. Moreover, because the existing posts define the lands inside the claims boundaries, one need only draw straight lines between all 4 posts (described above), and you will instantly see, 90+ % of the river channel is not between them.
Beware of placer claims supposedly described by metes and bounds descriptions, or any that are described as odd shapes (snow flake, horse shoe or triangular shaped, for instance)
The size of a placer mining claim is important. It will also clearly demonstrate the expertise of the locator. Each 10-acre aliquot part of a placer claim must be mineral-in-character. Mineral-in-character means land that is known, or can reasonably be inferred from the available geologic evidence, to contain valuable minerals subject to location under the general mining law for purpose of locating a placer mining claim.
For instance, large placer claims (160 acres, for example) that a topographic map, photographs or on-site inspection clearly shows contains only 40 acres of placer gold bearing stream, or river channel, should only be a 40 acre placer claim. Because the excess ground is not placer type mineral-in-character.
Don't let anyone try to convince you that the claim(s) large size makes it more valuable, when in fact - it is NOT. If the bulk of the property is not mineral-in-character, the non-mineral excess land adds no value to a placer mining claim, and could one day subject the owner to a "validity contest", by the BLM, or USFS.
High quality - accurate USGS topographic type maps of the claim are important. Obviously, one can assume that a locator, or seller of a placer claim, who cannot accurately depict, draft, or map the precise boundaries of a placer claim, is a novice.
Accurate mapping will also graphically display if the claim is properly described, by simple - quick compression of the properties legal description, to the map of the claims boundaries. The quality of the map(s) depicting the claim, reflect directly on the quality of the claims title.
The factual placer gold production history of the specific area where the placer claim is situated, as well as the source(s) of the gold, and mining methods historically used to recover it, is important. Truly, gold is where you find it. However, normally placer claims situated far from known sources of gold, without any historically documented history of placer gold production lessen the chance that economic deposits of placer gold will be found, or exist there. Novices, or unscrupulous people may stake placer claims that are nothing more than "goat pasture".
For a placer mining claim to be valid, perfecting, and vesting the owners valid existing private property rights, it must contain a valid mineral discovery.
If it does not, should the validity of the claim ever be contested by the agency (BLM -or- USFS) having administrative jurisdiction over the land, generally they will have little or no difficulty in quickly determining that the claim contains no valid mineral discovery, and consequently declare it void.
Visible geologic evidence of a "placer" type deposit is important. Generally, the bulk of placer gold deposits are contained in alluvial gravel's (tertiary, bench, gulch, bar, stream or river bed deposits). If the claim you are thinking of purchasing doesn't have this geologic evidence beware, and... don't let any extremely rich history of production in a specific area mislead you either. Just because a Bonanza fortune has been found in one location doesn't necessarily mean that if you have a claim a mile away it will be as productive. Novices and unscrupulous people will sometimes try to sell you a worthless claim based on the production of another historic producer close by. Ask them to show you the gold they've found on the perspective claim - Ask them too, for a demonstration of how you can find gold on it.
If you are unable to physically inspect the particular placer claim, prior to it's sale, detailed photographs of it are important. Obviously, photographs of the claim depict what is there. Ask for photographs of the claims boundary markers or monument, too. If none can be provided, it is safe to assume the claim is not marked (as in - paper staked). Paper staked mining claims are fraudulent.
Other photo's of the claim should depict the quality of road access, campsites, streams, rivers, gravel deposits, bedrock exposures and general topography of the claim. The availability, and quality of those photographs graphically demonstrates the quality of the property.
The availability of adequate sources of water is extremely important.
Few realize, no dry washing plant has ever been invented, nor exists that will economically - or - effectively process large volumes of gold bearing sand, or gravel.
As an example, a relatively good placer (pay streak) would contain at least $25+ per yard in recoverable gold. On a claim without water, a little back pack dry washer will process about five -5 gallon buckets full in a shift. A 5 gallon bucket contains about 1.5 cubic feet of material. A yard contains 27 cubic feet of material. You do the math.
To impress that point upon you, Nevada is this countries largest lode type gold producer. Gold placer deposits exist near almost all lode gold mining districts in Nevada. Nevada's history of placer gold production is extremely meager in comparison to other states - where water is available, or plentiful.
Without a close adequate source, or existing on site supply of water, mining placer deposits is not generally economically feasible. Gold rush and depression era placer gold miners were smart. Common sense dictates they would mine out every single economic placer gold deposit they found, if it was within their means. Without water, they could not economically mine literally thousands of placer gold deposits, known to exist in arid, or desert-like states, where adequate water is not readily available.
Beware of those who primarily focus on the recreational attributes of a placer mining claim. You can "recreate" on most BLM lands and in any National Forest - for free - except in fee camp grounds. There is no such thing as a "recreational" unpatented placer mining claim. It is either "valid", or not. In order for it to be "valid" it must be properly staked, filed, contain a "valid mineral discovery" and be properly maintained.
Recreational attributes do not establish the mining claims good title or validity.
A placer mining claim without defects, is easy to manage, and maintain. The caveat being, a placer mining claim with defects - which are sometimes correctable, and sometimes not, may become a nightmare to manage, and sometimes impossible to maintain. Utilize common sense, perform due diligence, ask intelligent questions. If the seller can answer them in a professional manner, providing you with whatever is necessary to validate the legitimacy of title to the unpatented placer mining claim offered for sale, it's title is probably good. If the seller cannot do so, his title may be defective, or invalid. You are the one that must decide. Do so - wisely. A "valid" placer mining claim is a true treasure, to be enjoyed & worked for generations to come.
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