Solar Upgrades...., and a blown up generator! Options

[Caveman]

Signed a contract to upgrade our solar last Saturday, and our old Generac Guardian 16kw gave up and ate its rotor and stator, so it was replaced by another Guardian 14kw
genset on Tuesday. Guardian Gensets are designed as back-up generators for homes when the power grid fails. For non-grid homes (like mine), they back up the solar
power during the night (and low sun days) - that is, when the batteries are drawn down to a certain voltage, the system turns on the generator to bring them back up full.
This should not happen very often, but as my current system is now under-sized, it runs every day. A few years ago, something went wrong with the old genset (a rat made
a nest in the generation unit), and I had it repaired then. It blew a board, and the contacts on the rotor were greased up with rat fat, which caused arcing. This probably led
to the current failure. The new genset is critter-proofed by fine (1/8") screening from the factory. The old one was protected by 1/4" screening (obviously not fine enough).

On to the Solar Upgrade:
The upgrades - 3900kw of SunPower E-20 solar panels on a Wattsun Tracker, upgrading Outback inverters to 48v from 24, adding 12 more Trojan L16RE-2v batteries (old
ones are less than 4 months old), 1000w Bergey wind turbine on a 60' supported tower.

Ideally, an off-grid home should be equipped with 150w of solar per battery. We don't come any where close to that currently. Plus our current panels are old, and not at
peak efficiency (we are getting around 700w out of 1025w, on a very good day). Things you learn as you go along.... Neither my wife nor I are minimalists either, and we
have 3 parrots that need to be kept warm. Plus, our horse waterer has a bowl and pipe heater to keep it from freezing. Add a refrigerator, well pump, pressure pump,
microwave, TV, phones, satellite dvr receiver, dvd player, etc., and you will see that our requirements far exceed what we have now. We have things on timers to reduce
load, but it doesn't reduce it enough. Hence the upgrades to the system. Plus we have added an outbuilding that must be heated (kept at 55F until it is in use), and a
sunroom (where the birds are kept) heated by a pellet stove and kept at 65F during the night. Our upgraded system will better handle the load, plus added insulation to the
sunroom floor framing this spring will help. Until then - no lights on during the day, TV use kept to a minimum, power the well pump only when the generator is on, etc., etc.,
etc. At least I am here full time now, so when something goes wrong, fails, or starts to fail, I usually catch it quickly and can try to remedy it before it causes a big hit to the
bank. However, The genset failed catastrophically, so there was no way to have caught it early - there was no sign other than the occasional blown fuse - when replaced, the
genset acted normally, and all readings were good with no alarms. Even had it looked at twice, and the techs could not find any problems. Then, no start and a VERY strong
burnt windings odor. ARRRRGGGH. Even caused a 120v feedback alarm on the B/U inverter. Fortunately, that was cleared with a complete system reset. It was a very bad
day - but STILL way better than Peyton's! I actually felt sorry for him.

[traddoerr]

Caveman, thats quite an investment! I have seen on a home in the Ft Collins area foothills a wind turbine system that was mounted to the roof, laying some what flat but able to catch the wind, have you ever seen anything like this? I have worked on some huge homes that had solar with some huge battery storge cells, is this what you have?

[Caveman]

Very similar. Ours right now is a 24v system with 12 Trojan L16RE-2V batteries (1110aH at the 20 hour rate), 8 panels totaling 1025 watts, on a pole mounted stationary
rack, with an Outback power system. That gives us 85.41w of solar per battery. Not nearly enough, when you consider that the minimum should be 150w per battery. The
upgrades will give us approx 206w of solar per battery, plus 1000w of wind power. That should do. Remember, though - that is a perfect world scenario. The reality is much
different, wind is not constant, nor is the sunshine. We will be closer to the 150w on average but this should knock our generator usage down to once a week or less.

Most of the larger homes in the urban/suburban neighborhoods have roof mounted systems with grid tie, and no batteries, for reducing their electric bill. Some of the wiser
souls have added batteries for UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply) purposes. And some are like me - they are not on the grid because they found it cost prohibitive to have
trenches dug, lines laid, and tap fees to be paid. We were looking at $30K just to have lines extended to our property. Note that this did not include having it run to the
build site, equipment, the actual cables, tap fees, and HOA tap fees (More than $30K in addition!). Top that off with the fact that we would not actually own the equipment,
but instead would be LEASING it! Yes, those boxes and meters on your houses do not belong to you, and you pay to have them installed (on new construction), then pay for
the privilege to use them, and also pay for the power used! You do own the breaker box, but only if you had a contractor install it - if the power company does that, you
only lease it (most are installed by contractors).

Yes the system is expensive - but there is no utility bill, no meter to be read (by sometimes unscrupulous companies), no averaging, no penalties for overuse, underuse, etc.,
and the total amount we have paid still is less than having utility power run. Plus, the power company has paid use for the right to use our excess, should they ever choose
to run lines to connect to it - which they will not. They still want us to pay for those lines, plus equipment and tap fees just for the privilege of selling them power. Crooks,
they are.

[russau]

yep its so important to know how much power (wats/amps)is needed when buying/useing a genset for your home. most people just buy something to get them by untill the power is restored. i did the samething untill i got tired of laying out the extension cords. now ive bought a 10KW genset and wired in a plug outside to tie in pannel.now i backfeed my pannel and stopped laying out extension cords to my appliances. ive instructed my wife on what todo when the power gos out but she will probly wait untill i get home todo it! just have to remeber to turn off the houses main breaker when running my genset to prevent anyone downline from getting ZAPPED!

[OklaPony]

Bergey wind turbine? Cool, that's from right here in Norman, OK!

[Caveman]

Yep, and they have an outstanding reputation.

[Denise]

Great system you have there Caveman!! Makes our setup here look like a toy.

[Caveman]

Thanks, Denise, and Thank God we ran into some very knowledgeable folks.

What kind of set-up do you have? I am sure it is no toy.

[CP]

Very nice set up Caveman! Our off grid set up is tiny compared to that.
We run our entire household (very small also) and this website with only 2 - 45w stationary panel racks for 90w total @ optimum sun angle which is a very short period of each day. Those are charging two 12v deep cycle rv batteries typical of any parts store. For inverters we only run off of 2 - 400 watt and manage to keep our usage down fairly well without things like well pumps, refrigerators or hot water heaters.
All water is either moved with small pumps for transfer or 12v pumps for the ondemand hot water heater when it gets installed soon. (man that will be nice)
Otherwise we use the good ol' gravity of life to feed the water line....cold only....brrr!

For additional power in evenings, we run a 5kw pull start genny....boy that can be a fun one in single digits to get started!!

We hope to add some upgraded wattage and storage capacity as soon as we can but we manage with what we "OWN" (loved your mention about ownership....NICE ONE!)

Oh and let me know if you're unloading any of those panels.... you might be just adding to your arrary but if it's a replace project send me a pm, maybe we can work out something for the used stuff.

[Caveman]

Oh, man. That would work for us on a part time use camp! You guys are Tough! Have you thought about solar hot water? My grandparents had that for
supplemental heat back in VA and it worked pretty well, but I don't know much about it, or how difficult it is to install, weatherproof, etc. I do know it has to be protected to
keep it from freezing.

I had one of those gensets. 5500w pull start Coleman that was deafening loud, and I had to heat it with the truck exhaust to start it in winter. De-rated to a little more than
4Kw here at altitude, and as it was old, (and abused) probably less than that. VERY fun at -30F! That's why we bought the Generac, and oversized it for our requirements.

We are keeping the old panels to go with the new - gives us a total of 5900w - but we have to find some replacement panels as it appears that we have at least 2 that are
bad. Sorry about that. Have you tried Craig's List, or checked with a Solar distributer/installer for used ones? Craig's List is hit or miss on whether the panels are good, but
a distributer/installer will only sell good ones.

Storage Capacity is key - especially for small systems like yours. Your batteries must be in the same year (that is, installed within a year of the other batteries on the system)
and matched (AGM, Gell cell, true wet cell sealed, unsealed, etc.) and the same ratings, or you will have problems. (Batteries that die quickly, overheat, catch fire, melt, or
explode). Ideally, all batteries must be purchased at the same time (or at least within a year of the original), be the same maker, and be the same size/rating/capacity. This
can be expensive, but, ideally, your batteries should last 8 to 10 years. That is, if you do not fully discharge them. This shortens their life by half - each time it happens!
(Fully Discharged = <60% capacity, and less than rated voltage). Deep cycling is ok - as long as the batteries are built to handle it (ie - deep cycle, and marine starting
batteries), but still, this can be done only so many times (check with manufacturer). Deep cycle = 30% discharged each time. Our old batteries lasted 10 years - a very long
time considering we abused them! Horribly! And they were still holding voltage, but the charge to discharged time was greatly reduced.

Are you on a 12v or 24v system? I am guessing 12v, which means that you guys (based on the sized of your system) are truly operating in the spirit of the pioneers! Way
tougher than this old caveman. I like modern conveniences! I'd be lost without them. Still, I'm envious - I wish I had that sort of "can do" you guys do!

[CP]

Thanks Caveman and no worries on the panels, just thought I'd ask. We'll keep our eyes open for a decent deal on something that works.

Hot water by solar we've tinkered with a little but have found the "on demand" hot water heater to work quite well. Even with inflowing water temps of near freezing, the tankless water heater can still easily scald you if not cautious. Just love it! They run on propane and must have a minimum pressure to ignite but it's darn nice to not run out of hot water! We are working to install it into the room we added on now that the two water holding tanks are put in there.

You're definately right on the storage capacity and matching batts etc......with this small set up we keep each array, controler, batt, and inverter seperate from the other that way we don't have to worry about that just yet. Once we add more then we'll sure need to match them up in the set.
Most folks run their batts down too far when in use too....we are like you trying to not discharge that far which will extend life even on these smaller batteries.

Yes all on 12v/inverted except for genny time then we switch all direct to 120v while it's running. Fortunately all our appliance type stuff will run under 400w not including the chest freezer we've replaced the refrige with.....that just gets run at night for a couple hours on the genny but holds the chill for the food goods much better all through the day, even through summer with opening during the day. After reading about others replacing their propane refriges with chest freezers on timers it sure made sense to us. Every time that dang refrigerator was open all the energy we paid for fell to the floor! GRRR!!! And propane fridges do not chill quickly at all. The newer small chest freezers can be run on timers that run 15 and off 45 for folks with battery banks, you'd be suprised how much colder they stay and how little power they consume!

Bet the power company's just love that fact in what is viewed as "normal" refrigerators.....they are making a killing chillin' the floor! Wonder if they own stock in the appliance companies?

Thanks for the kudos but those old time pioneers were very stout folks, we are all softies compared to them I think. We'll be very happy to get more of more of those modern conveniences again soon too, just one step at a time! For now we are just a tad bit busier with chores day to day as they were back in the old days......wells, pumps, plumbing and wiring were/are all cool inventions.

[Denise]

It's our home and I LOVE it!!!

[Caveman]

I know what you mean about those "on demand" water heaters! We love ours. Interesting about the chest freezer - we have one in Broomfield, no place for it out here, yet -
I will have to look into setting it up out here when we put in the garage - 12v battery and inverter, with a timer, I think I can swing that into operation! I just have to keep the
coils clean, like on the fridge.

Mrs CP - I wasn't saying anything against your home - perish the thought! I am actually quite impressed that you and yours have such a "can do" attitude that you can make
it an actual home, not just a place to go to every now and then - and I love all the pics of the cat trees, the bunnies, and everything else. I would not be able to do it - I have
gotten way to comfortable with modern convenience. I applaud you guys!

I would love to be able to get out there sometime and compare notes - you guys have done some great things I would like to give a try. Like a veggie garden - how do you
keep the deer and rabbits out of it?

[Denise]

I know Scott, sorry you thought I was upset about something you said. Quite the opposite! I am very proud of our home so I like to say so...hehe
We have worked really hard to even get to this point.... but it's so rewarding!! My dad would have been really proud.

The garden had to be fenced in. We burried it in a couple of inches down all the way around. They still tried to sneak in now and again but I could see where they were digging before they broke in (most of the time). Giving them the scraps from the garden helped also. Not so many deer here, we mostly have Antalops and horses moving through. Flat land and no trees........other than the dead ones we planted.

[Caveman]

Planning on that here, plus an in-ground green house, chicken coop (maybe, with guinea hens!), and on, and on......