Access to my claim over PVT land |
Access to my claim over PVT land |
May 24 2015, 02:18 PM
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#16
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Shovel Buster! Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 2-May 15 From: Aurora, CO Member No.: 120,420 |
Almost always, those with sub-surface mineral interests who wish to exercise their split-estate rights must either negotiate access terms and liabilities with all affected private land owners (and have those parties agree to the offer), or pursue the extent of necessary access they will be granted to extract those minerals without agreement as required (and usually involves the lawyers to some degree, either by representation or a court case). Wyoming has a famous and recent case regarding this. (Google "North Star Oil Split Estates")
Many home owners (especially in larger cities) will have signed away most of their mineral rights upon purchase, without understanding the potential impact of what that means. While it doesn't mean the mineral right owning entity can just show up and go about doing as they please (IE, they generally are not permitted to remove private property fixtures, must be at least aware of noise levels and provide abatement if necessary, must provide compensation for any damage or utility interruption, etc) the mineral ownership or lease will carry all the legal weight necessary to have their accesses assured with necessary stipulations, be allowed to extract the the mineral, and then generally be required to restore the land to it's original state and ensure it is safe upon completion. Why? Because the home/property owner basically signed away the right to say otherwise, back when when they purchased it. But they also retain the right to protect their property and ability to reside on it; if the sub-surface mineral owner screws any of that up, even to the point of just interruption, they are liable to the extent the granted access previously determined (and the power shift's heavily back to the private land owner). Mineral rights of a private owner who purchased the land "Fee Simple" (or was granted the land as a Public Land Title, purchased back/required mineral lease after expiration, etc) will own both surface and sub-surface mineral rights, and typically the only way to lose that is to sell or lease those rights themselves. (Exceptions would be extremely rare and generally involve having lost an eminent domain battle in court.) Without taking a stance: The US Government claims no mineral rights, but can take numerous actions to affect mineral rights (whether right or wrong). This is uncommon (well, depending on who you ask), and usually done with the intent to protect land/wilderness/resources that are unique... but sometimes a little political skullduggery takes place in the darker parts of the politics/law world too. Lets face it, our U.S. politicians are far from being shining examples of democracy, and generally are not above granting specific interests "special" political privilege for the right political donations. -------------------- ~Jason T (aka Yoda)
Zac Brown In Disguise? CP Lifetime Member Proud USAF Retiree Referral Code: JT543 |
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May 26 2015, 09:50 AM
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#17
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
Excellent input Jason!
I'd also have to agree with what GeoMatt said on the previous page....To me this sounds like a land locked parcel more than likely surrounded by private ranches.... That fact should have been known and considered when or prior to staking this claim as a concern to how the claim could operate once staked. IMHO -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Jun 7 2015, 12:25 PM
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#18
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Rock Bar! Group: Members Posts: 613 Joined: 16-October 08 From: Central Colorado Member No.: 6,813 |
Thanks all, Problem solved there was a FS road that reach the claims. Slightly covered up but easily cleared. However it seems that there is no law that a Miner can use to cross PVT land? How about Split Estates where the Mineral rights belong to the Gov and the topsoil to the owner? I know you can claim PVT land if the Gov owns the mineral rights. But how about access? There should be such a law somewhere. Your efforts are appreciated. Thanks Andy Hello Andy, Back in 2011, I was interested in prospecting for rare earth and radioactive deposits that were known to occur in an area that was a "split estate". I filed a Notice of Intent to Locate under Public Law No. 103-23 of April 16, 1993. Once approved, the target parcels were segregated for a 90 day period under COC# 074888 so that my company could follow through on the proposed plan. I subsequently discovered a world class thorium deposit containing rare earth elements and LOTS of smoky quartz crystals. The lode cuts across a county maintained all-weather road so I didn't have to negotiate for further access rights. This process may not be available for all "split estate" lands but it isn't too complex or expensive to pursue on lands that were patented under the Livestock Raising Homestead Act of 1916. Similar laws may be used for other type of split estates. Where there is the will, there is a way... Best Wishes for your success, ASTROBLEME -------------------- Annual Dues Paying Member Since 2008
Tonko Mining Company "Some day this crater is going to be a greatly talked about place, and if the above credit is due, as is certainly the case, I would like to have it generally known for the sake of the children." Daniel Moreau Barringer 2/1/1912 in a letter about the Barringer Meteorite Crater, Arizona USA |
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Jun 7 2015, 02:41 PM
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#19
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Shovel Buster! Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 22-December 10 From: USA Member No.: 7,480 |
Astrobleme,
Yeah the road the Farmer locked was a FS road so no worries there but there was another FS block that connected to ours with a small road leading onto our claims. So no worries there the road is cleared a little steep in one place but we have good access to our Mill site and claims. But I agree with you where there is a will there is a way for sure. As for the Gov owning the mineral rights... well they do most of it, not that they will work it, it was just never given to the homesteaders. Notice of intend to file is a very powerful document for sure! We should be set up and running in a few months time then I will contact you here and invite you over for a visit. Just picked up a Ranch close by the site not large just 38 acres and a 3 Br house on it, good views sturdy house. So there will be space. High time we sink a few. Andy |
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Jun 7 2015, 02:45 PM
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#20
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Shovel Buster! Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 22-December 10 From: USA Member No.: 7,480 |
Hi All
Thanks for your input very informative. Swiss will do a few pics no worries there. Will post soon. Have fun out there Andy |
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Jun 14 2015, 10:32 AM
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#21
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Master Mucker! Group: Admin Posts: 4,149 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 3 |
As for the Gov owning the mineral rights... well they do most of it, not that they will work it, it was just never given to the homesteaders. That statement is incorrect........ Surprising no one else has said this yet...... I know our club members know otherwise! Maybe you mean leasable minerals with which the leases must pay royalties. Just had to clarify that for this website's readers, makes a huge difference in one's perception if understood properly and around here that is the main goal! -------------------- CP-Owner/Administrator
www.ColoradoProspector.com IF YOU USE IT, THE GROUND PRODUCED IT! MINERS MAKE "IT" HAPPEN!! |
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Jun 15 2015, 04:57 PM
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#22
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Shovel Buster! Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 23-September 14 Member No.: 118,169 |
This is the best discussion of subsurface rights I have ever seen on an internet prospecting forum. Very good answers showing a good working knowledge of a very complex subject.
Keep up the good work! |
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