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Mining claims location or patented, Placer, Lode, Mill site
Clay Diggins
post Nov 26 2014, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (EMac @ Nov 26 2014, 06:51 PM) *
Seems you've missed my point, so I'll be explicit with it: My take, and the red herring comment is this isn't practical information for the folks here. I'm not sure how long established laws might change this take, but I am curious since you mention it.

Most discussions I'm reading (which is what drew me here) are around filing our first claims (me included), recognizing minerals, and light duty equipment. People cutting 3000' tunnels into rock I would hope would come here to help neophytes such as myself since they know and live this stuff already. While I'm sure there's probably one or two here, everyone I've met is a long ways from cutting 3000' tunnels.

If you're reading that I don't believe you, I encourage you to click the links below which will take you to the GPO's published laws on the matter. These are codified under Title 43 Code of Federal Regulations. You are correct that tunnel sites grant you rights, but not exactly as you quote.

Actual 43 CFR 3832.44 & .45 quote (hyperlinked so you can verify; emphasis is mine):


Thanks for sharing your opinion. I was unaware too much information on "mining claims location or patented" might offend some here. I hope those who share your opinion will forgive my transgression.

I think I should head you off from a blatant and dangerous misconception in your post above. The CFR contain only self promulgated agency regulations. They are not a source of law nor are they "codified".

Laws are passed by elected representatives in the United States.

QUOTE
Article. I. Section. 1. United States Constitution All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.


We are entitled to a Republican form of government.

QUOTE
Article IV. Section. 4. United States Constitution The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government


Agency fiat is not law and does not have the effect of law. The agency regulations in the CFR are not voted on by elected representatives nor are they law.

CFRs do not override or contravene positive law as enacted by Congress nor does it override or contravene Supreme Court decisions.

QUOTE
Article III Section. 2. United States Constitution The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;—between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.


The executive agencies, their agents and their regulations can not instruct you on law because those agencies are not legally responsible for any advice they may give you.

Heavy Pans
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swizz
post Nov 26 2014, 09:50 PM
Post #17


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You shore know how to make friends...
Happy Thanksgiving Mr Diggins.


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fenixsmom
post Nov 26 2014, 11:32 PM
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I may stand alone on this, but I like him and I appreciate his attempts. Speak ill of me for standing up for hum if you wish, I don't care. At least he's embraced what we are supposed to be supporting. The knowledge of prospecting. Teaching others what we know.

So what if his information is slightly off? Is it too hard to say "Hey, thank you for that. You're a little off, here's where you are wrong?" You folks do that all of the time with me? Why am I special? I'm as smart as the rocks we wash and as bubbly as the river. I don't have proof of the supposed emails sent and I'll draw my own conclusions on what I've seen. Thank you.
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EMac
post Nov 27 2014, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (Clay Diggins @ Nov 26 2014, 07:19 PM) *
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I was unaware too much information on "mining claims location or patented" might offend some here. I hope those who share your opinion will forgive my transgression.


On this piece, I stand corrected. You are correct sir that I'm in no position to really comment on what knowledge others may or may not find useful here. Reviewing the CP charter, I'm clearly in the wrong:

QUOTE
Whether you've just started learning about prospecting and mining, or if you have prospected for years, the Colorado Prospector clubs website has something for you.


As for the legal semantics, I'll leave you to your views since I've derailed this thread enough already. You can ignore CFRs at your own peril.


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opera non verba

"All courses of action are risky, so prudence is not in avoiding danger (it's impossible), but calculating risk and acting decisively. Make mistakes of ambition and not mistakes of sloth. Develop the strength to do bold things, not the strength to suffer." ~Niccolò Machiavelli

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swizz
post Nov 27 2014, 05:22 AM
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QUOTE (fenixsmom @ Nov 26 2014, 10:32 PM) *
Why am I special?

You are special in many ways. arms.gif
In this case you are special because you are not a vendor barging in with the intent of advertising/selling mining goods, legitimate goods or not. He's been asked not to advertise at the discretion of D & D. Now he's having fun playing Devil's Advocate by nit-picking old reference threads, not necessarily a bad thing, and certainly can be fun for research nerds like us. It opens up discussion of the laws and we like that. If there are discrepancies or variations of law interpretation they should be addressed and this is a great place to do it! We've had spiteful vendors hang around and linger before, nothing new really if that's the case. I don't know if he's actually being spiteful... or this is his way of making friends. I try to give everyone the benefit of a doubt, he's probably just trying to make friends. Some of us miners can be socially awkward as I personally demonstrate frequently. blush.gif
He is knowledgeable and seems to be good at research.... could really be a good fit here and maybe will be in time.
Cheers, heavy pans and all that! cheers.gif


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fenixsmom
post Nov 27 2014, 06:05 AM
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Daww Swizzle stick! arms.gif
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swizz
post Nov 27 2014, 06:31 AM
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biggrin.gif swizzle of the day


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Clay Diggins
post Nov 27 2014, 10:44 AM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Nov 26 2014, 08:50 PM) *
You shore know how to make friends...
Happy Thanksgiving Mr Diggins.

Thanks swizz! thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

You are a likeable rascal yourself.

Happy Thanksgiving. cheers.gif
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swizz
post Nov 27 2014, 11:03 AM
Post #24


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QUOTE (Clay Diggins @ Nov 27 2014, 09:44 AM) *
You are a likeable rascal yourself.

Happy Thanksgiving. cheers.gif


Rascal? Why yes, I'm also quite the crooner....


Happy Thanksgiving to you and your kin! cheers.gif


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CP
post Nov 27 2014, 04:50 PM
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Thanks for your contribution Clay diggings, I was fully aware of tunnel claim sites when I started this thread back in Jan. of 2010. As noted by Emac, it didn’t seem applicable to 99% of this community’s forum members.

Good job Jessie and Emac, you’re both on the ball here. Tunnel sites are associated with lode claims by nature and take on a much larger venture in capital, man power etc etc. Not what most of us have been discussing but none the less it is a fourth type of claim. Even though the tunnel may not have been blasted for mineral discovery to begin with, like a RR/mining company tunnel project I could see this come into play. Their option to stake on discoveries would already be “claimed” via tunnel claim and their capital expenditure reaching said discovery, which then would have lode claims filed upon them as required after discovery.

Emac, those CFR’s are very much worth learning about in my opinion, although they are in fact not the law, that much is correct. The CFR’s are part of the bigger picture, can be used by you for your benefit, and is part of what we are continually working to educate folks about because the officials use them against us. Knowing what they are suppose to use and do for their job gives us more power/knowledge to make the best decisions for our own situations as they arise, including backing down officials outside their authority in the field as our club members have shown time and time again successfully!

Jessie, you may very well stand alone on that I do not know, but I don’t think we are the type around here to judge you because of it….it’s your choice.
All we wish for you is more knowledge for your own success, no matter the source. Accuracy however can become an issue as you’ve seen. Again it’s each individuals choice to use knowledge the gain as they see fit if it is in fact accurate, this can empower you independently.

We’ve embraced the individuals having knowledge for 11+ years here at Colorado Prospector club, it’s our whole concept which you choose to join. smiley-cool14.gif
Clay however is not interested in this community’s view point, look at his posts thus far. Not once has he complimented your efforts personally, or anyone else’s, nor the website itself. Only has been posting in a corrective (helpful?) manner without acknowledgement of the threads content for the most part other than to “correct”. I find that odd.

Throwing topics off track after appearing helpful doesn’t seem constructive to the thread.
Another tactic I’ve notice is Clay would like to have his name showing as posted most recently in all the laws and regs sections of the forums…… deliberately spamming out forums/sections and stirring up the normal community members, again while appearing to be sooo polite and “helpful”, but completely void of sincerity or other user acknowledgement. Seems pretty obvious to me that he’s not looking to “make friends” as Swizz pointed out. Case in point…..this thread is so far off its topic title….WOW! Why? Because someone had another opinion, then the sarcasm comes in again… how this can be taken as sincere or helpful towards anyone I do not know. confused0082[1].gif You’d think the person posting such sarcasm would realize that.

I will also point out that we are here at the Colorado Prospector website and this person with no interest in Colorado or the site (by their own words) seems to really be interested in stirring the pots around here. Unfortunately for them this is not their website, it is ours, the clubs, which I pay for with you the club members support. So as this person keeps coming in to be helpful with such tactics, I will continue to come in and stick up for our ground here! I’m not at anyone else’s websites boasting or stirring up members in another community. That ain’t cool!

I would sure hope there aren’t any club members that hold anything against me for standing our ground in such situations.
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lostnewb
post Dec 1 2014, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (ColoradoProspector @ Nov 27 2014, 03:50 PM) *
Thanks for your contribution Clay diggings, I was fully aware of tunnel claim sites when I started this thread back in Jan. of 2010. As noted by Emac, it didn't seem applicable to 99% of this community's forum members.

Good job Jessie and Emac, you're both on the ball here. Tunnel sites are associated with lode claims by nature and take on a much larger venture in capital, man power etc etc. Not what most of us have been discussing but none the less it is a fourth type of claim. Even though the tunnel may not have been blasted for mineral discovery to begin with, like a RR/mining company tunnel project I could see this come into play. Their option to stake on discoveries would already be "claimed" via tunnel claim and their capital expenditure reaching said discovery, which then would have lode claims filed upon them as required after discovery.

Emac, those CFR's are very much worth learning about in my opinion, although they are in fact not the law, that much is correct. The CFR's are part of the bigger picture, can be used by you for your benefit, and is part of what we are continually working to educate folks about because the officials use them against us. Knowing what they are suppose to use and do for their job gives us more power/knowledge to make the best decisions for our own situations as they arise, including backing down officials outside their authority in the field as our club members have shown time and time again successfully!

Jessie, you may very well stand alone on that I do not know, but I don't think we are the type around here to judge you because of it….it's your choice.
All we wish for you is more knowledge for your own success, no matter the source. Accuracy however can become an issue as you've seen. Again it's each individuals choice to use knowledge the gain as they see fit if it is in fact accurate, this can empower you independently.

We've embraced the individuals having knowledge for 11+ years here at Colorado Prospector club, it's our whole concept which you choose to join. smiley-cool14.gif
Clay however is not interested in this community's view point, look at his posts thus far. Not once has he complimented your efforts personally, or anyone else's, nor the website itself. Only has been posting in a corrective (helpful?) manner without acknowledgement of the threads content for the most part other than to "correct". I find that odd.

Throwing topics off track after appearing helpful doesn't seem constructive to the thread.
Another tactic I've notice is Clay would like to have his name showing as posted most recently in all the laws and regs sections of the forums…… deliberately spamming out forums/sections and stirring up the normal community members, again while appearing to be sooo polite and "helpful", but completely void of sincerity or other user acknowledgement. Seems pretty obvious to me that he's not looking to "make friends" as Swizz pointed out. Case in point…..this thread is so far off its topic title….WOW! Why? Because someone had another opinion, then the sarcasm comes in again… how this can be taken as sincere or helpful towards anyone I do not know. confused0082[1].gif You'd think the person posting such sarcasm would realize that.

I will also point out that we are here at the Colorado Prospector website and this person with no interest in Colorado or the site (by their own words) seems to really be interested in stirring the pots around here. Unfortunately for them this is not their website, it is ours, the clubs, which I pay for with you the club members support. So as this person keeps coming in to be helpful with such tactics, I will continue to come in and stick up for our ground here! I'm not at anyone else's websites boasting or stirring up members in another community. That ain't cool!

I would sure hope there aren't any club members that hold anything against me for standing our ground in such situations.
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Well its about time somebody said it thumbsupsmileyanim.gif . Thanks for always keeping everything on the up and up.


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