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Looking for a claim post source on the Front Range
GeoMatt
post Jul 11 2016, 10:47 PM
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Yes. Claim posts came from Carlin Mining Services in Elko, NV - regular supplier for me, but definitely not on the Front Range. We are in the field this week. Will take at least another week to get things into the county, and then to the BLM.

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I'll let you guess the commodity and location - But I won't tell you if you are right or wrong.....



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Crusty
post Jul 12 2016, 06:12 AM
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QUOTE (GeoMatt @ Jul 11 2016, 10:47 PM) *
I'll let you guess the commodity and location - But I won't tell you if you are right or wrong.....


The moon? Stay cool & hydrate!! :)


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EMac
post Jul 12 2016, 09:14 AM
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I'm glad you got the posts, but sorry we couldn't be much help. I would venture to say you're the first one on here with such an issue.

Looking at your webpage, www.geomatt.com, I'm assuming it's foam to make cushions! smiley-laughing021.gif

Maybe you've gotten ahead of the crowd on Pokeman Go... chin.gif

Best of luck to you out there! Hope to see you sometime at one of our shindigs.



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Crusty
post Jul 12 2016, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (EMac @ Jul 12 2016, 09:14 AM) *
Maybe you've gotten ahead of the crowd on Pokeman Go... chin.gif
smiley-laughing021.gif


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Gene Kooper
post Jul 12 2016, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Jun 30 2016, 08:06 PM) *
That makes sense, I understand client confidentiality... I know it'll become public record 'after' filing. Just fishin' before the spawn. fishing.gif

Gene, could you please elaborate or provide a reference on the "Colorado Revised States" (when you get a chance). I was not aware that there is such a thing that overrides Federal mining law granting special rights to PLS in terms of discovery and staking Location Claims in Colorado. I am not doubting your notion, nor taking you to task... just very curious. Thank you, I appreciate your informative posts.

swizz,

In Colorado, staking mining claims for others is regarded by the Board of Licensure for Architects, Professional Engineers and Professional Land Surveyors (AES Board) as practicing professional land surveying. If you are the claimant, you are allowed to survey your own claim. It has always been this way. However, it is illegal to stakes mining claims in Colorado for a third party unless you are a licensed surveyor. In other words, you can stake, record and file a mining claim and then sell it to another person, but you cannot offer or perform staking "services" to others without being licensed. I don't regard this as as "such a thing that overrides Federal mining law granting special rights to PLS...." Rather the State Legislature defined claim staking for others as providing professional land surveying services.

I have seen this notion that anyone can stake mining claims for anyone else in the past. They often don't know what the hell they are doing. Some of the more egregious ones are geologists (I have two geology degrees from CSM so please consider this as partially being self-deprecating humor). music037.gif

If GeoMatt stakes mining claims in Colorado and is not an officer or full-time employee of the company that is recording the claims with the county and filing them with the BLM, then his claim staking is illegal. The company cannot employ him temporarily to do the work (that doesn't seem to apply here) nor hire him as an independent contractor (may apply to this situation). GeoMatt's last post indicates that the claims to be staked are outside of Colorado. If so, it may or may not be illegal depending on the statutes of that state. I mentioned in another post last night that Colorado law requires lode mining claims be staked with six substantial posts. I am not aware of any Colorado court case that ruled on what a substantial post is or is not. While I don't necessarily agree that 2"x2"x48" stakes are substantial posts, the bigger issue with me is the lack of their long-term durability. At least he isn't using open PVC pipe! happy088.gif

In 2014, I filed a complaint against someone that was advertising the staking of mining claims for others. The AES Board duly considered the complaint and determined that they had jurisdiction over the respondent pursuant to sections 12-25-201 to -219 C.R.S.; and found that credible evidence existed that respondent acted without the required license in violation of section 12-25-205, C.R.S. In the Board's findings of fact and conclusions of law, respondent advertised and offered to perform claim staking and monumenting services, which constitutes the practice of professional land surveying as defined in section 12-25-201 C.R.S.; and the AES Board issued a cease and desist order under authority granted it by sections 12-25-205(3.5)(b)(I) and 12-25-209(8.2), C.R.S.
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EMac
post Jul 13 2016, 10:16 AM
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How grueling is the test for surveying? I truly have no intention of pursuing such a license, but the same board gave me the fundamentals of engineering (FE) exam to be an Engineer Intern, and that beast was the worst test I've ever had. 4 hours in the morning of general engineering, including subjects I'd never had classes for (i.e. thermodynamics...EEs took electrical power distribution/transfer instead), followed by 4 more hours of subject-specific interrogation. I could have done another general engineering block in the afternoon, but I was tired of guessing at subjects I hadn't seen in over a year, if ever. Fortunately I passed the first time, so didn't have to endure that torture again. This was 17 years ago, so I'm not sure how much that's changed.

My hats off to those who go on to earn their PE license. I've heard it's a similar test, but they give you blank pieces of paper to answer the questions/designs instead of multiple choice. I'm imagining the surveyor license has similar barriers to entry; if that's true, that profession moved up a few notches in esteem for me.


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CP
post Jul 13 2016, 03:02 PM
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For corner posts requirements we can see that in the BLM website pdf found here Mining Claims and sites on Federal Lands

Here is a screen shot of the page for corner posts requirements. Denise gets credit for reminding me that this diagram was in this PDF.....good work honey! smiley-cool14.gif

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Gene Kooper
post Jul 13 2016, 03:12 PM
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EMac,

I took the Fundamentals of Surveying and Professional Surveying exams in April and October 1984 a year or two after the NCEES exams were first used in Colorado. I didn't think either one was difficult. I took the FE exam in April 1985. If I were to rank them, the FS exam was the easiest followed by the FE exam and then the PS exam. In the fall of 1984 I also took the GRE general and geology exams. I found those to be more difficult than the surveying and engineering exams. I never took the PE exam as Colorado does not "recognize" geological engineering (at least exam-wise).
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EMac
post Jul 13 2016, 04:21 PM
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In the hopes of completely derailing Matt's initial post (he's sorted it out anyway), I'm wondering what prompted you to take the FE exam? Even 17 years ago, I recognized I didn't intend to pursue a PE, and they have limited utility for EEs anyway. If the school wasn't willing to pay for the exam, I wouldn't have taken it; I haven't had any use for it since either.

I can't imagine you did it for grins...was it a requirement for certain functions? I know it matters much more in the civil and mechanical engineering disciplines. With respect to mining, I could see a PE being required for making holes under structures and such, but I'm not sure what the advantage is to being an engineer intern.

Thanks in advance for the edification!



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Gene Kooper
post Jul 13 2016, 05:45 PM
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Yep, I think the thread is completely derailed now.

I followed the advice of a couple of my profs. They said that having the EIT (in my time it was called the Engineer-in-Training exam) would be beneficial in case I decided to later pursue a career as a PE. They also stated the obvious that passing the EIT exam right out of school would be the best time to take the exam. So I took it during my first semester in graduate school.

My graduate work was in hydrogeology, with an emphasis in groundwater modeling and aqueous geochemistry. Lots of fluid mechanics and long-hair math in that field so my engineering courses did come in handy. It didn't take too long for me to realize that becoming a PE-PLS was not something I wanted to pursue. In order to get the necessary 4 years of progressive engineering experience to qualify to sit for the PE exam, I would have had to work under a civil PE doing waste water engineering, soil mechanics and/or foundations, etc., none of which interested me. Now, I do mineral survey retracements in the summer months and geological consulting work for oil and gas and mineral exploration companies. I should say that I hope to continue to do the latter, but with oil and metal prices being what they are that may be nothing more than a pipe dream for the foreseeable future.
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Gene Kooper
post Jul 13 2016, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (Denise @ Jun 30 2016, 05:51 PM) *
mellow.gif Seriously Matt! You have made 350 discoveries and are filing claims on all of them? Doesn't sound like proper claim filing to me! Claim posts can be purchased any where if one knows the proper material to use.

Denise,

Not to dispute anything you have said, but it is common for large companies to stake large parcels at one time. My first experience was in 1979 where I helped stake nearly 40 sections of ground south of Battle Mountain, NV. The survey company I worked for in Denver had 6 to 8 3-man crews hauling 4"x4" wood posts around like crazed ants. We initially stayed in Winnemucca so that the "locals" would not know what we were up to (as if it weren't obvious that 8 company trucks zoomed through Battle Mountain twice a day)! The staking was done with Brunton compasses and 300' steel tapes. The object was to stake the ground as fast as we could run!

In GeoMatt's case, let's say for argument's sake that he is staking one large rectangular block of claims (14 claims wide by 25 claims long). We all know that there are not 14 lodes spaced exactly 600 feet from each other, with all 14 lodes extending in straight lines for 37,500 feet (if the claims are in Colorado that would require 765 claim stakes and 350 location notice posts). However, that is how large claim blocks are often staked. For some types of ore deposits like uranium roll-front and copper porphyry deposits there are no veins or lodes so the classic lode or vein as defined in the mining laws has no meaning.

There are other ways to prove up a discovery than uncovering a lode with a 10 foot shaft, cut or adit. Remote sensing, diamond core drilling, geochemical sampling, etc. are common ways to do this. With remote sensing, some airborne/satellite sensors have the capacity to create mineral models from the multispectral bands on the sensor. Hyperspectral airborne sensors like Hymap (126 spectral channels) and AVARIS (224 spectral channels) and handheld spectrometers can detect minerals like hydrothermal alteration clays that are found as "halos" around hydrothermal precious metal veins. On the ground, you might not see a thing.

QUOTE (Denise @ Jul 2 2016, 08:25 AM) *
I stand by saying it doesn't sound like proper filing to me. I'm looking to do more than just grow my business and site Matt, it's more about bringing awareness and teaching folks about proper research and claim staking and filing. I guess you should have explained more about what kind of claims (locatable or leasable) instead of just boasting about filing 350 claims in a few weeks throwing up red flags for all to see.

I agree that within the context of your club what you say is valuable information. For small-scale prospectors, discovering and locating a gold or silver bearing vein that will withstand scrutiny by the BLM is very important. Things are more complicated these days since the BLM has "moved" away from the prudent man test regarding a locatable mineral discovery. Now a BLM mineral examiner will look at the economics of a deposit. A claim may become invalid solely because the current price of the locatable mineral makes the deposit uneconomic.

A retired mining attorney gave me a reprint of an article he wrote in 1998 for the 44th Annual Proceedings of the Rocky Mountain Mineral Law Institute that discusses this point. Unfortunately it is copyrighted so I cannot attach a scan of it, but the title is, "Mineral Discovery: Is the Prudent Man Test Dead" by Don H. Sherwood. The initial section is, "Discovery, the Essence of a Valid Mining Claim". This is why I included the quote on discovery in the U.S. Forest Service's document of my post, "Part II - State Mining Laws".
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EMac
post Jul 13 2016, 10:25 PM
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You're a fount of knowledge sir, and I wholeheartedly thank you for taking the time to condense it down and share with us.



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