Swiftwater Sluicing, Ways to compensate? Options

[noob]

So, I changed river hobbies, gave some folks down in Golden a couple hundred bucks or so yesterday and went out and gave the new pan a whirl today in a river of chocolate milk. Ultimately, building a rock diversion slightly upstream would have been my first choice, but leather workboots combined with the aforementioned river that looked like chocolate milk would have landed me on my kiester trying to build one where I could not see the riverbed I was walking on. My question is what can be done to compensate for the water speed through the sluice as far as sluice set-up (angle of sluice, water depth in sluice, classification of material, etc.) in a situation where the water is running through the sluice a bit faster than ideal?

[Woody]

Hi Noob,

I think you are on the right track about building a water diversion. But it does not have to be all that elaborate. Sometimes one or two rocks placed just a few feet above your sluice will suffice. Of course I can't see the exact stream you are working with there but I'm confident you can adjust the flow somewhere within your working area and tame that water. If not another option might be to raise the angle of the sluice up a bit. However, you mentioned that the flow was discolored. Likely as not the next time you go there it will be running different and this will not be a problem at all. Good luck, Woody.

[noob]

Likely as not the next time you go there it will be running different and this will not be a problem at all.

Will find out this afternoon, unfortunately not until after 16:00 as I have some things to do first. Not much time, but I am hoping for at least two buckets, if not more, and a sluice set up a bit better. Maybe I'll bring the camera and snap a few pics and do an official newbie trip report.

Of course I can't see the exact stream you are working with there but I'm confident you can adjust the flow somewhere within your working area and tame that water.

Let's just say that 'swift' will continue to be an issue so I expect to master the art of diversion dam building in the next couple months. However, I did find flour gold after running half bucket of 1/4" classified material pulled from the very edge of the creek and my first time out with an improperly set up sluice and beginner panning and diggin' skills, so I'm going back for more practice and more gold this afternoon/evening for sure. I am in an area where I haven't ever seen people prospecting (not that they haven't or don't) and I am guessing it has to do with the area being mostly private land with no property line boundries with a little research needed to find out where the county land is and where the private parts are and the character of the river (current and limited beach type areas).

But there's gold there, 'cause I done found me some last night without really knowing what the heck I am doing ...

[noob]

For a slight follow up, the river has dropped probably 75 cfs or so which, in addition to clearing up, made life a little easier.

I know I am still losing a fine gold though. You can read all about it on the net that you want, but there is certainly a bit of a learning curve to go through. It certainly ain't rocket science, but I am sure those with experience can attest to the fact that there is definitely some trial and error in the field to be experienced. The fine tuning of the sluice to make sure you are catching as much fine gold as possible.

The good news is I can find some very fine gold after panning the cons at the side of the river and a piece or two that is big enough to actually see some shape to the piece, not just a speck of color. No doubt I am losing a fair share from lack of sluice experience and panning skills, so I think I'll keep practicing at this spot and dig down deeper in the river bed ...

[noob]

I enjoy conversations with myself. 'Cause I like talkin' to a good listener and listenin' to a good talker. So I'll continue. Silence is golden fer sure and it caused me to do more reading. I found this on the GPAA forum. A guy that registered in April and has 8 posts to date:

Let an old man give you some good advice. If you own a sluice box, leave it at home! Every one needs one to hang on the wall of the clean up shed. Past that, there is not much use for them.

None of them are very good at catching fine gold. What they are good for is making a prospector very tired, very broke, and they do a good job of moving fine gold downstream Wink. Oh they will catch course gold just fine, but that is less than 1% of the gold out there. It's the other 99% that will make you or break you.

All the riffle formulas, mats, rugs, etc. in the world will not hold on to micron gold with 2 or 3 inches of fast water ripping it loose! If your in a nugget and course gold paystreak, fine, use a sluice. But if you are in just plain old average dirt, it will cost you a fortune to use it.

Set you a 1/16" grizzley on top of a 5 gallon bucket and toss in a shovel. Throw out the large stones and then after washing, dump the grizzley in a super-sluice pan and quickly shake it down and pan it off (30 seconds). You will not loose any large gold this way. After you get the bucket about 1/2 full of 1/16" sand, stop and pan it out in a regular pan (or rather down to black sands) and then do another pan, saving the concentrates. Then do another bucket.

You will go home with far far more gold at the end of the day than you will running a sluice. That pan will catch all the fine gold (that bears repeating, all of it). Find a creek with abundant flour gold and try it for a day. 2 or 3 ounces of micron gold is much better than 6 to 10 flakes and maybe a rice size nuggett or two (the pan will catch them too).

Most quickly move into the "more material equals more gold syndrome" and that ain't the case (a sluice is not a pulse jig). Learn to use that gold pan and that noggin. That pan is a production tool, not a clean up tool Wink

I concur. I watched black sands gather at the only drop riffle in my A52 - where the flume attaches to the sluice. They swirled for a bit, a couple seconds, and then washed out and than enough gold dust remained to see a nice line, and then, well, gone. It washed out too. Where did it go? Out the sluice is my bet. No way all, or even the majority settled. There wouldn't be gold that Wheatridge dosen't allow us to get in Prospector Park were it otherwise. So much fine flour gold accumulated that I can see a one inch line 1/16 - 1/8 thick of gold on the drop riffle of where the flume attaches. And then, well gone. In a couple seconds. Out the sluice and no way in hell it dropped to the expanded metal or carpet. Not possible. I have unintentionally swam mother natures sluices more than once, and I got to say, I agree wholeheartedly with the gentleman that idnetified himself as Mitch Dickson.

Never underestimate the power of a river. I don't know jack about prospecting, but I know a sluice. For sure. A sluice is nothing more than a mini rapid.

Wish I had my $120.00 back.

I don't know jack about gold prospecting, but I know more than a little something about what happens to the material that flows through a sluice, as I have played the part of the material in Mother Nature's sluices.

Chaotic.

NO WAY can a sluice catch ALL of the fine gold. No way. I have played the role of gold in a river. And it hurts and has about killed me. Did you know there are stars underneatht hte water? I don't know what the heck I am doing prospecting, but I have swam rivers. Well, more like been thrown out of rafts and then been at the mercy of the river gods in what is known in rafting and yaking terms as a swimmer. 'Cept it ain't swimming. It is battling for your health and life.

If I had to guess, I would guess that at least 75% of fine gold goes buh-bye, out the sluice.

I would bet that anyone dredging the Ark is losing two or three times the amount of gold they are capturing.

[rich on western ...]

Take a look at an Angus MacKirk sluice. Pretty good at catching the fine gold. The best sluice I have found for true flower gold is a DFS. I use mine with carpet under the expanded metal with the miner's moss under that to take up space. It has a long slickplate. The material has laminar separation before hitting the micro riffles of the expanded metal. Unfortunately I don't think it is being made anymore. You could make one yourself if you have access to a sheet metal brake and some sheet aluminum. Otherwise I would go with the double ramp drop riffle.

[OklaPony]

Howdy, noob... Welcome aboard.

I think there is probably some merit to what the fellow is saying but he should probably be taken with a grain of salt. What I discovered is that by doing my streamside classification wet I ended up with very rich cons at the bottom of my bucket and they never made it to the sluice. Basically I would take my larger classifier and fit in the top of a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with water, and wash the rocks with a combination of shaking the bucket and working the material with my hands. Then I would take my smaller classifier in another bucket and do the same thing. From there I scooped the top of the resulting cons through the sluice. You can search my posts to find where I posted about it.

[kmontoya911]

Noob,

Welcome to the forum. I haven't responded to this post, simply, because I didn't have any info I thought would be useful to you.

Now, I may.

First off, I have had similar thoughts as you, that I was not getting the answers to my questions as fast as I thought I should, if at all. Then I came to the realization that I am asking complete strangers to help me. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. I have cjosen to be very thankful for the answers I get when I get them. If I don't, thats o.k. I will just keep looking, or learn on my own.

Another relization I have come to is that this sight is more of an information sharing sight than a social sight. This was kind of a shock, as I was used to other forums where there are people there all day, every day just chatting away.

I would encourage you to continue to ask questions, but more importantly, continue to post your experiences. They might give someone else information they are looking for.

Thanks,
Ken

[Modern Day Miner]

I enjoy conversations with myself. 'Cause I like talkin' to a good listener and listenin' to a good talker. So I'll continue. Silence is golden fer sure and it caused me to do more reading. I found this on the GPAA forum. A guy that registered in April and has 8 posts to date:

Let an old man give you some good advice. If you own a sluice box, leave it at home! Every one needs one to hang on the wall of the clean up shed. Past that, there is not much use for them.

None of them are very good at catching fine gold. What they are good for is making a prospector very tired, very broke, and they do a good job of moving fine gold downstream Wink. Oh they will catch course gold just fine, but that is less than 1% of the gold out there. It's the other 99% that will make you or break you.

All the riffle formulas, mats, rugs, etc. in the world will not hold on to micron gold with 2 or 3 inches of fast water ripping it loose! If your in a nugget and course gold paystreak, fine, use a sluice. But if you are in just plain old average dirt, it will cost you a fortune to use it.

Set you a 1/16" grizzley on top of a 5 gallon bucket and toss in a shovel. Throw out the large stones and then after washing, dump the grizzley in a super-sluice pan and quickly shake it down and pan it off (30 seconds). You will not loose any large gold this way. After you get the bucket about 1/2 full of 1/16" sand, stop and pan it out in a regular pan (or rather down to black sands) and then do another pan, saving the concentrates. Then do another bucket.

You will go home with far far more gold at the end of the day than you will running a sluice. That pan will catch all the fine gold (that bears repeating, all of it). Find a creek with abundant flour gold and try it for a day. 2 or 3 ounces of micron gold is much better than 6 to 10 flakes and maybe a rice size nuggett or two (the pan will catch them too).

Most quickly move into the "more material equals more gold syndrome" and that ain't the case (a sluice is not a pulse jig). Learn to use that gold pan and that noggin. That pan is a production tool, not a clean up tool Wink

I concur. I watched black sands gather at the only drop riffle in my A52 - where the flume attaches to the sluice. They swirled for a bit, a couple seconds, and then washed out and than enough gold dust remained to see a nice line, and then, well, gone. It washed out too. Where did it go? Out the sluice is my bet. No way all, or even the majority settled. There wouldn't be gold that Wheatridge dosen't allow us to get in Prospector Park were it otherwise. So much fine flour gold accumulated that I can see a one inch line 1/16 - 1/8 thick of gold on the drop riffle of where the flume attaches. And then, well gone. In a couple seconds. Out the sluice and no way in hell it dropped to the expanded metal or carpet. Not possible. I have unintentionally swam mother natures sluices more than once, and I got to say, I agree wholeheartedly with the gentleman that idnetified himself as Mitch Dickson.

Never underestimate the power of a river. I don't know jack about prospecting, but I know a sluice. For sure. A sluice is nothing more than a mini rapid.

Wish I had my $120.00 back.

I don't know jack about gold prospecting, but I know more than a little something about what happens to the material that flows through a sluice, as I have played the part of the material in Mother Nature's sluices.

Chaotic.

NO WAY can a sluice catch ALL of the fine gold. No way. I have played the role of gold in a river. And it hurts and has about killed me. Did you know there are stars underneatht hte water? I don't know what the heck I am doing prospecting, but I have swam rivers. Well, more like been thrown out of rafts and then been at the mercy of the river gods in what is known in rafting and yaking terms as a swimmer. 'Cept it ain't swimming. It is battling for your health and life.

If I had to guess, I would guess that at least 75% of fine gold goes buh-bye, out the sluice.

I would bet that anyone dredging the Ark is losing two or three times the amount of gold they are capturing.

I just think it takes practice with your sluice. I agree in the beginning that you will lose some fine gold out the back of your sluice. But after a few trips out and getting your water flow right I have way to much black sand staying in my sluice to be losing any gold. Gold is so much heavier than anything else I just don't see how you could keep all of that black sand in your sluice and not keep most of the gold.

[noob]

v

[noob]

But after a few trips out and getting your water flow right I have way to much black sand staying in my sluice to be losing any gold

How can you be certain of that? Why can you find find gold in Clear Creek in east Denver than? A river is nothing more than a sluice.

Gold is so much heavier than anything else I just don't see how you could keep all of that black sand in your sluice and not keep most of the gold.

Yea, but 70 minus, 100 minus, well, it is carried by water, many, many, many miles. A couple feet of sluice cannot capture it all. Or even the majority IMO.

[swizz]

Take a look at an Angus MacKirk sluice. Pretty good at catching the fine gold.

I concur.
I purchased a MacKirk Mini Long Tom ($49) and have been running it (sampling) the last couple weeks with good success. No muss, no fuss, no carpet... easiest cleanups EVER.
Drop-riffles are packed after two buckets of minus 1/2" class (MUCH black sand on my claim), but I can rinse it into a pan in about 30 seconds and move on with my field sampling and processing.
There is no field mining device known to man which recovers 100% of mircon Gold dust (Gold under 100 mesh). Who cares? I prefer to process a lot of material and not toil over minimal losses of microscopic Gold dust. He who processes the most dirt wins every time.
A Keene A52 can be modified (DFS style) to recover super fines. My modified A52 catches fines that are minus #100 very well when set up properly. If you are concerned about catching floating microns... add a surface surfactant like Jet Dry or other to your field process.
A device is only as good as the operator however. More tinkering and certainly much more experience will always get you better results. I stopped blaming equipment a long time ago. Focus now is on moving volumes of material.
Hope this helps, stick with it and get dialed-in. Gold is more than 19 times heavier than water, it ain't rocket science.

[swizz]

I found this on the GPAA forum. A guy that registered in April and has 8 posts to date...

Yes, there are many colorful theories and hypothesis' which are entertained on the Gold forums throughout the net. It helps keep the dream alive and is great entertainment.
One of the latest fruitbat stories was some guy proclaiming that you can mine pine cones for Gold (cuz he heard it at a campfire or something). wow

[Modern Day Miner]

How can you be certain of that? Why can you find find gold in Clear Creek in east Denver than? A river is nothing more than a sluice.



Yea, but 70 minus, 100 minus, well, it is carried by water, many, many, many miles. A couple feet of sluice cannot capture it all. Or even the majority IMO.

I can be certain because when I bring my concentrates home and classify them down to 100 mesh most of my gold is in the 100 mesh bucket. The only way to know if you are getting the majority of it is to catch everything that flows out the back of your sluice and pan it. If you do this a few times you will learn how to set your sluice up so that it catches most of the gold. After prospecting for a couple of years now I have taken many friends out with me the same friends that I try to take fishing. I have learned that if you are patient enough to fish than you are usually patient enough to to put in the time to learn how to sluice and pan properly. It does take a very patient person to do this hobby/job.


As far as the gold in east Denver This creek has been running for thousands of years with so many different floods and water levels that yes gold is going to move many, many, many miles but that is a very violent water flow with really no controls on it. You can control the flow in your sluice you just have to set it up properly.

[Woody]

I agree with Modern Day Miner and Swizz! That Sluice Box is more a friend than you are giving it a chance to be. As the feller mentioned in the GPAA link, you can capture more fines with a pan. But, what was missing in that statement was that if your technique is off then you are still on the same merry-go-round. You still have the same set of problems with a pan as with a sluice. As for the work..... hands down the sluice is a winner. you can process a lot more material with a sluice in a day then you can with a pan. I believe in using the correct tool for the job and that is exactly what these two items are, tools. For processing volume, the sluice is the correct tool. For testing, clean-up, or possibly back country pack in, the pan is best.

If in fact you are losing the gold you mentioined, "a line 1/16 to 1/8in thick" then just adjust your flow or raise the end up a bit. There are other methods out there. Finding out which one works best for you might take a while. The sluice is the easiest and most forgiving one at the price offerd. often as a new person just starting out one tends to spend a lot of effort tring to recover every speck possible. I call that, "Wee Gold". I will quickly toss that in favor of running another bucket everytime.

There is multipul reasons why gold is so expensive, Woody.