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Posted by: GeoMatt Jun 30 2016, 04:40 PM

Where is everyone sourcing their claim posts from? I'm not used to getting these on the Front Range and need a recommendation or two. I'll be staking about 350 claims in a couple of weeks, so I need a rather large number of posts.

Many thanks!

Posted by: Denise Jun 30 2016, 04:51 PM

Seriously Matt! You have made 350 discoveries and are filing claims on all of them? Doesn't sound like proper claim filing to me! Claim posts can be purchased any where if one knows the proper material to use.

Posted by: GeoMatt Jun 30 2016, 04:57 PM

Seriously. Remember, I work professionally in the business. And yes, all proper Denise, but thanks for your concern. I'm just trying to avoid cutting points on these to make them work for me (soft sediments over much of this area). If I'm in Nevada, it is an easy purchase, not so much here on the Front Range. Didn't know if anyone knew of a place that might have these in stock, vs. me getting a shop to custom prep them for me.

Posted by: swizz Jun 30 2016, 05:25 PM

Hi Matt!
That sounds very ambitious, what is the name of your business.... or company that you work for?

Posted by: Gene Kooper Jun 30 2016, 05:57 PM

My suggestion is that GeoMatt NOT say online who he is working for professionally! Unless he is a licensed land surveyor in Colorado or working under the direct supervision of a Colorado PLS, his staking of mining claims is illegal.

Just to be clear, anyone can stake their own claim. It's always been that way.

However, staking mining claims for a third party is defined in the Colorado Revised States as providing professional land surveying services. This isn't something that I made up. It's Colorado law, but don't take my word for it. Contact the Colorado Board of Licensure for Architects, Professional Engineers and Professional Land Surveyors and they will confirm what I have said.

Gene Kooper, PLS

Posted by: MikeS Jun 30 2016, 06:19 PM

I am a bit confused by the question Matt. My direct answer would be the local hardware store.

So in Nevada you have a place that stocks bulk claim posts with a pointed end and you are looking for a place on the Front Range that does the same?

You actually discovered valuable minerals in 350 different spots and only now deciding to start staking them with a timeline of a few weeks?

So bulk claim posts, 1,400 or more of them, in stock. 350 claims in a few weeks. You may want to ask your Nevada guy if he delivers.

Posted by: swizz Jun 30 2016, 07:06 PM

That makes sense, I understand client confidentiality... I know it'll become public record 'after' filing. Just fishin' before the spawn.

Gene, could you please elaborate or provide a reference on the "Colorado Revised States" (when you get a chance). I was not aware that there is such a thing that overrides Federal mining law granting special rights to PLS in terms of discovery and staking Location Claims in Colorado. I am not doubting your notion, nor taking you to task... just very curious. Thank you, I appreciate your informative posts.

Posted by: swizz Jun 30 2016, 07:08 PM

Yup, that's about a semi load, I was going to suggest the same thing.

Posted by: GeoMatt Jul 1 2016, 07:24 AM

Some of these comments make me chuckle. I'd post up some answers to the questions, but since no one even offered a word of encouragement or a suggestion for my query I'll pass. Looks like I'll just be calling around to survey shops this morning to see what everyone carries. I provided as much information about my activities as I'm willing to provide on a public forum such as this. I can assure you though, everything is legal, by the book, and highly ethical - I have a fiduciary responsibility to our shareholders to act and carry out business in accordance with the law. It is amazing though how my veiled accusation are in the above posts.

And Denise, if you really want to grow your site and business, making illegal claim staking accusations against posters who you don't know, and don't know anything about their situation, is probably not going to help you out.

Posted by: MikeS Jul 1 2016, 12:32 PM

Our comments may make you chuckle Matt but your story sounds downright ridiculous. I gave a direct answer to your question. I "source" my posts from the local hardware store. You still have not described what you are actually looking for. Are you looking for a specialized marker? Are you looking for a lumber yard that carries bulk fence posts that are pointed at one end? Describe to me what your desired markers need to be.

350 claims in a few weeks sounds ridiculous even for a big company. Your company spent all the time and money to prospect all these locations but no one bothered to work out where to get posts from until now? I'm not saying 350 claims in a few weeks is impossible but it is still ridiculous!

Despite your assertions I can't help but still be highly skeptical of your story and intent. For the rest of my comment I will give you the benefit of the doubt Matt.

Denver area lumber yards or fencing companies may have what your looking for (not sure what that is yet). I recommend calling around for pricing and details. If these companies in Denver do not have what your looking for then I seriously recommend talking to your source in Nevada.

Aside from the claim posts I also recommend waiting a few months before you embark on your staking spree. You can save your company and shareholders a lot of money by waiting for the new assessment year. 350 claims X $155 fee = $54,250 you can save your company and investors by waiting little longer.

Posted by: Denise Jul 2 2016, 07:25 AM

I stand by saying it doesn't sound like proper filing to me. I'm looking to do more than just grow my business and site Matt, it's more about bringing awareness and teaching folks about proper research and claim staking and filing. I guess you should have explained more about what kind of claims (locatable or leasable) instead of just boasting about filing 350 claims in a few weeks throwing up red flags for all to see.

Posted by: CP Jul 4 2016, 01:57 PM

I had some of the same thoughts as others have posted here Matt. Sounds like an enormous undertaking to stake corners on that many claims.
Also I didn't see any actual accusations towards you….only questions about your statement. Not sure why you feel that's an accusation with the material we teach hear. Obviously many readers are saying the same thing…..WOW THAT'S A LOT OF CLAIM STAKING AND MONUMENTING WORK!

I've often wondered how large companies claim such vast tracts as well when it comes to making discoveries and marking corners properly with such a large number of claims to stake on the slate!


Are these claims concerning "leasable minerals"? If so then that's a different category of claims.

If these are for locatable minerals such as precious metals, then I agree with the questions…..Have you (or the company) made actual discoveries on these 350 parcels or is this all on "suspected deposits" from geologic data (paper)?

Just questions that pop into my mind as well as others as we see in these replies, nothing wrong with asking questions that won't violate your companies agreement.

With all the scammers out there trying to paper file loads of claims to sell off ….we tend to ask questions when we see something out of the ordinary. Individual claim staking is well defined and we are very aware of what it takes to accomplish that for just one claim around here. You're stating to do the process on 350 parcels of land all at the same time……sounds like "out of the ordinary" to us all here.

Back onto the thread topic directly too…… Are you looking for actual claim "corner posts" or maybe you're asking about sources for "survey stakes"? Just wondering as you keep referring to surveying these new claims and calling a survey shop for the posts you desire. Having done some work on survey parties myself, those survey stakes are much smaller, cheaper and would only fill a pick up truck bed for the amount you'll need. Still think the hardware store would be the source to start with for pre cut ones. Or maybe as you said, a survey supply that carries "posts" precut vs the little stakes.

I'll also add that if you're using "survey stakes", then those DO NOT QUALIFY as claim "corner posts" under BLM claim marking/monuments requirements…….maybe we have some terminology confusion on stakes and posts here?

Posted by: GeoMatt Jul 5 2016, 01:09 AM

I'm going to ignore most of the above, as most of it questions my activities, and doesn't really address my question... Where to find bulk claim posts on the Front Range?

For anyone interested in that query - I have determined that the most 2" x 2" x 4', cut tip posts available on the front range from any vendor (in stock) is ~175. Wylaco has them, but they are pretty old and moldy - I'm sure they will cut a deal if you want them. Some other vendors can get them in, but with a longer lead time, and the mark-up for ordering non-stock material makes them a little costly.

Best source for me was from a regular supplier out of Elko, NV. Carlin Trend Mining Supplies and Services has a few thousand claim posts at anyone time in there warehouse there.

As I've said before, nothing here is a scam, illegal, or of questionable ethics. All of it is above board, legal and ethical claim staking. Just a larger scale operation than most of you have probably experienced. I was looking for claim posts on the Front Range as it was convenient for me to pick up here before heading outside of Colorado to stake, and really didn't want to deal with shipping if I didn't have to. Never bought any here before, so I was looking for any supplier referrals. I figured it was a pretty innocent question though and per chance someone might have a great lead.

Maybe I'll post up some pictures of my "ridiculous" activities sometime in the future.....

Posted by: EMac Jul 5 2016, 09:06 AM

I was going to say welcome to the club, but see you've been here as long as I have. Frankly this is more geared to the small scale prospector than a large commercial operation.

I work with suppliers for widgets to make other things, and supply timeline is a constant concern even in professional manufacturing (we metric on time delivery as well as lot acceptance rates). Since these are pretty simple, if you throw enough money at the problem, you could have someone make them for you overnight. Cheap, fast or good....pick 2.

Have you tried alibaba, or a local fence company? Looks like Diversified Lumber Products there in Evergreen might be able to help. I highly doubt anyone here has had to source so many claim posts as to make this even close to a problem. I haven't, but you're on the right path shaking the trees like you're doing. Something will fall out.

This smacks of humble bragging, but I hope not. Regardless I hope everything works out. Seems like if you've got the knowledge and skills to claim this many that fast, I think it would be awesome to share more of your knowledge. What value(s) are you pursuing?

Posted by: EMac Jul 11 2016, 12:14 PM

Did you get your claim posts sorted out and everything filed?

Posted by: GeoMatt Jul 11 2016, 10:47 PM

Yes. Claim posts came from Carlin Mining Services in Elko, NV - regular supplier for me, but definitely not on the Front Range. We are in the field this week. Will take at least another week to get things into the county, and then to the BLM.

I'll let you guess the commodity and location - But I won't tell you if you are right or wrong.....

Posted by: Crusty Jul 12 2016, 06:12 AM

The moon? Stay cool & hydrate!! :)

Posted by: EMac Jul 12 2016, 09:14 AM

I'm glad you got the posts, but sorry we couldn't be much help. I would venture to say you're the first one on here with such an issue.

Looking at your webpage, http://www.geomatt.com/, I'm assuming it's foam to make cushions!

Maybe you've gotten ahead of the crowd on Pokeman Go...

Best of luck to you out there! Hope to see you sometime at one of our shindigs.

Posted by: Crusty Jul 12 2016, 09:16 AM

Posted by: Gene Kooper Jul 12 2016, 09:22 PM

swizz,

In Colorado, staking mining claims for others is regarded by the Board of Licensure for Architects, Professional Engineers and Professional Land Surveyors (AES Board) as practicing professional land surveying. If you are the claimant, you are allowed to survey your own claim. It has always been this way. However, it is illegal to stakes mining claims in Colorado for a third party unless you are a licensed surveyor. In other words, you can stake, record and file a mining claim and then sell it to another person, but you cannot offer or perform staking "services" to others without being licensed. I don't regard this as as "such a thing that overrides Federal mining law granting special rights to PLS...." Rather the State Legislature defined claim staking for others as providing professional land surveying services.

I have seen this notion that anyone can stake mining claims for anyone else in the past. They often don't know what the hell they are doing. Some of the more egregious ones are geologists (I have two geology degrees from CSM so please consider this as partially being self-deprecating humor).

If GeoMatt stakes mining claims in Colorado and is not an officer or full-time employee of the company that is recording the claims with the county and filing them with the BLM, then his claim staking is illegal. The company cannot employ him temporarily to do the work (that doesn't seem to apply here) nor hire him as an independent contractor (may apply to this situation). GeoMatt's last post indicates that the claims to be staked are outside of Colorado. If so, it may or may not be illegal depending on the statutes of that state. I mentioned in another post last night that Colorado law requires lode mining claims be staked with six substantial posts. I am not aware of any Colorado court case that ruled on what a substantial post is or is not. While I don't necessarily agree that 2"x2"x48" stakes are substantial posts, the bigger issue with me is the lack of their long-term durability. At least he isn't using open PVC pipe!

In 2014, I filed a complaint against someone that was advertising the staking of mining claims for others. The AES Board duly considered the complaint and determined that they had jurisdiction over the respondent pursuant to sections 12-25-201 to -219 C.R.S.; and found that credible evidence existed that respondent acted without the required license in violation of section 12-25-205, C.R.S. In the Board's findings of fact and conclusions of law, respondent advertised and offered to perform claim staking and monumenting services, which constitutes the practice of professional land surveying as defined in section 12-25-201 C.R.S.; and the AES Board issued a cease and desist order under authority granted it by sections 12-25-205(3.5)(b)(I) and 12-25-209(8.2), C.R.S.

Posted by: EMac Jul 13 2016, 10:16 AM

How grueling is the test for surveying? I truly have no intention of pursuing such a license, but the same board gave me the fundamentals of engineering (FE) exam to be an Engineer Intern, and that beast was the worst test I've ever had. 4 hours in the morning of general engineering, including subjects I'd never had classes for (i.e. thermodynamics...EEs took electrical power distribution/transfer instead), followed by 4 more hours of subject-specific interrogation. I could have done another general engineering block in the afternoon, but I was tired of guessing at subjects I hadn't seen in over a year, if ever. Fortunately I passed the first time, so didn't have to endure that torture again. This was 17 years ago, so I'm not sure how much that's changed.

My hats off to those who go on to earn their PE license. I've heard it's a similar test, but they give you blank pieces of paper to answer the questions/designs instead of multiple choice. I'm imagining the surveyor license has similar barriers to entry; if that's true, that profession moved up a few notches in esteem for me.

Posted by: CP Jul 13 2016, 03:02 PM

For corner posts requirements we can see that in the BLM website pdf found here http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/energy.Par.28664.File.dat/MiningClaims.pdf

Here is a screen shot of the page for corner posts requirements. Denise gets credit for reminding me that this diagram was in this PDF.....good work honey!

Posted by: Gene Kooper Jul 13 2016, 03:12 PM

EMac,

I took the Fundamentals of Surveying and Professional Surveying exams in April and October 1984 a year or two after the NCEES exams were first used in Colorado. I didn't think either one was difficult. I took the FE exam in April 1985. If I were to rank them, the FS exam was the easiest followed by the FE exam and then the PS exam. In the fall of 1984 I also took the GRE general and geology exams. I found those to be more difficult than the surveying and engineering exams. I never took the PE exam as Colorado does not "recognize" geological engineering (at least exam-wise).

Posted by: EMac Jul 13 2016, 04:21 PM

In the hopes of completely derailing Matt's initial post (he's sorted it out anyway), I'm wondering what prompted you to take the FE exam? Even 17 years ago, I recognized I didn't intend to pursue a PE, and they have limited utility for EEs anyway. If the school wasn't willing to pay for the exam, I wouldn't have taken it; I haven't had any use for it since either.

I can't imagine you did it for grins...was it a requirement for certain functions? I know it matters much more in the civil and mechanical engineering disciplines. With respect to mining, I could see a PE being required for making holes under structures and such, but I'm not sure what the advantage is to being an engineer intern.

Thanks in advance for the edification!

Posted by: Gene Kooper Jul 13 2016, 05:45 PM

Yep, I think the thread is completely derailed now.

I followed the advice of a couple of my profs. They said that having the EIT (in my time it was called the Engineer-in-Training exam) would be beneficial in case I decided to later pursue a career as a PE. They also stated the obvious that passing the EIT exam right out of school would be the best time to take the exam. So I took it during my first semester in graduate school.

My graduate work was in hydrogeology, with an emphasis in groundwater modeling and aqueous geochemistry. Lots of fluid mechanics and long-hair math in that field so my engineering courses did come in handy. It didn't take too long for me to realize that becoming a PE-PLS was not something I wanted to pursue. In order to get the necessary 4 years of progressive engineering experience to qualify to sit for the PE exam, I would have had to work under a civil PE doing waste water engineering, soil mechanics and/or foundations, etc., none of which interested me. Now, I do mineral survey retracements in the summer months and geological consulting work for oil and gas and mineral exploration companies. I should say that I hope to continue to do the latter, but with oil and metal prices being what they are that may be nothing more than a pipe dream for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: Gene Kooper Jul 13 2016, 06:39 PM

Denise,

Not to dispute anything you have said, but it is common for large companies to stake large parcels at one time. My first experience was in 1979 where I helped stake nearly 40 sections of ground south of Battle Mountain, NV. The survey company I worked for in Denver had 6 to 8 3-man crews hauling 4"x4" wood posts around like crazed ants. We initially stayed in Winnemucca so that the "locals" would not know what we were up to (as if it weren't obvious that 8 company trucks zoomed through Battle Mountain twice a day)! The staking was done with Brunton compasses and 300' steel tapes. The object was to stake the ground as fast as we could run!

In GeoMatt's case, let's say for argument's sake that he is staking one large rectangular block of claims (14 claims wide by 25 claims long). We all know that there are not 14 lodes spaced exactly 600 feet from each other, with all 14 lodes extending in straight lines for 37,500 feet (if the claims are in Colorado that would require 765 claim stakes and 350 location notice posts). However, that is how large claim blocks are often staked. For some types of ore deposits like uranium roll-front and copper porphyry deposits there are no veins or lodes so the classic lode or vein as defined in the mining laws has no meaning.

There are other ways to prove up a discovery than uncovering a lode with a 10 foot shaft, cut or adit. Remote sensing, diamond core drilling, geochemical sampling, etc. are common ways to do this. With remote sensing, some airborne/satellite sensors have the capacity to create mineral models from the multispectral bands on the sensor. Hyperspectral airborne sensors like Hymap (126 spectral channels) and AVARIS (224 spectral channels) and handheld spectrometers can detect minerals like hydrothermal alteration clays that are found as "halos" around hydrothermal precious metal veins. On the ground, you might not see a thing.


I agree that within the context of your club what you say is valuable information. For small-scale prospectors, discovering and locating a gold or silver bearing vein that will withstand scrutiny by the BLM is very important. Things are more complicated these days since the BLM has "moved" away from the prudent man test regarding a locatable mineral discovery. Now a BLM mineral examiner will look at the economics of a deposit. A claim may become invalid solely because the current price of the locatable mineral makes the deposit uneconomic.

A retired mining attorney gave me a reprint of an article he wrote in 1998 for the 44th Annual Proceedings of the Rocky Mountain Mineral Law Institute that discusses this point. Unfortunately it is copyrighted so I cannot attach a scan of it, but the title is, "Mineral Discovery: Is the Prudent Man Test Dead" by Don H. Sherwood. The initial section is, "Discovery, the Essence of a Valid Mining Claim". This is why I included the quote on discovery in the U.S. Forest Service's document of my post, "Part II - State Mining Laws".

Posted by: EMac Jul 13 2016, 10:25 PM

You're a fount of knowledge sir, and I wholeheartedly thank you for taking the time to condense it down and share with us.