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Mineral and Gem mining and prospecting, What is the first step
MikeS
post Feb 23 2015, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE (Somethin' Else @ Feb 23 2015, 01:40 PM) *
I would like to hear some stories about your encounters with government types and the experience you have had with standing up for your miners rights.

When I filed my first claim at the BLM office they tried to misfile my claim several times before I was able to get the person behind the counter to understand their own procedure for filing a "bridge claim" (see rockets second link). Luckily I knew what I was doing otherwise my claim could have been invalidated. The BLM folks are nice but don't count on them to know even their own rules.

QUOTE (Rocket @ Feb 23 2015, 11:30 AM) *
How about getting answers straight from the officials.

The Mining Claim Packet was not too bad before the new revisions. Now I would say it is filled with garbage. Even the first section "Notice to mining claimaints" has inaccurate and misleading info. The BLM or NF are not supposed to give legal advice. They will gladly print this packet to express their opinion though.
The second link posted to the Colorado BLM is likely the best page I have seen the BLM put out but it is still lacking.


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swizz
post Feb 23 2015, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (Crusty @ Feb 23 2015, 06:19 PM) *
Part of the problem with "complying with these requirements, staying within the laws" is the incredible amount of misinformation out there. For example your statement regarding Lr2000 being for claims and the county for private property. LR2000 isn't updated constantly and there may have been claims filed up to 90 days ago that won't show up in LR, but the county will be able to tell you about them... so if you just go off LR and head out to the field thinking you are good to go, you might find yourself in the middle of someone else's freshly filed claim! LR is a good place to start and to do a virtual recon of the location, but verifying it through the county is a must.


100% correct.


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swizz
post Feb 23 2015, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (MikeS @ Feb 23 2015, 06:40 PM) *
The BLM folks are nice but don't count on them to know even their own rules.


The Mining Claim Packet was not too bad before the new revisions. Now I would say it is filled with garbage. Even the first section "Notice to mining claimaints" has inaccurate and misleading info. The BLM or NF are not supposed to give legal advice. They will gladly print this packet to express their opinion though.
The second link posted to the Colorado BLM is likely the best page I have seen the BLM put out but it is still lacking.

Also 100% correct.


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Somethin' Else
post Feb 25 2015, 08:30 AM
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QUOTE (Rocket @ Feb 23 2015, 07:11 PM) *
Glad to hear you have had good experience with the BLM. Did you notice that the Mining Claim Packet is from the BLM? To clarify another point for other readers, the BLM website (LR2000) is for locating mine claim ownership and the County Assessor's office (for on-line info) and County Clerk and Recorder are for private property ownership. Sorry to hear you have had bad experience with the Forest Service. So readers can discern misinformation for themselves, here is the link for the US Forest Service Handbook. www.fs.fed.us/dirindexhome/dughtml/fsm.html Explore the links to get to the official (ooooo! there's that terrible word) websites for the laws and regs and forms. What is the problem with complying with these requirements, staying within the laws? We are professional miners are we not?





I've visited the US Forest Service Handbook website and found it was only useful in its conspicuous lack of information on mining. The index had a heading called Minerals & Geology, under which it said "No Handbook."




All the resources you all have mentioned in this thread are useful for gathering information on the area you want to prospect. There appears to be some confusion about vocabulary and word definitions. The BLM website is the most helpful in information on mining laws and staking mining claims. Browse through all their publications. There is even one that shows how long/wide your claim must be when staking it and what size markers you need to place. The BLM's LR2000 can print out a list of active, closed, pending and void claims, but as one of you mentioned it can lag 90 days in the posting of information. That's where the county clerk comes in. But I have seen on the BLM documents where it isn't required to file a claim with the county. I hope that's changed. Since LR2000 no longer posts the maps, the county clerk is maybe the only place you'll find maps with detailed location marker locations.

The county assessor's records are for surface land ownership information, so you can see who owns what. Wilderness areas, wildlife areas, as well as private property ownerships and even public land ownerships show up on the GIS map with parcel boundaries overlayed on aerial maps. Topographic maps downloaded for free from store.usgs.gov also have an aerial imagery layer and PLSS (Sec-Twp-Rge) lines you can add to your map to help you identify land features and plan your prospecting trip.

There may be other resources to help you compile information. Knowledge is power. I googled Mount Antero (as an example) and got maps and a history of the area, including mining history. Very interesting. Happy prospecting.

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CP
post Mar 6 2015, 09:51 AM
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Great input everyone! thumbsupsmileyanim.gif I've moved this thread on over to the laws and regulations section and I'd also suggest that readers (zziipp, Rocket, Somethin' Else) browse this same section for a lot more information than found at the gov webpages.
Knowledge is power! research.gif happy088.gif


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Clay Diggins
post Mar 7 2015, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE (Crusty @ Feb 23 2015, 06:19 PM) *
Part of the problem with "complying with these requirements, staying within the laws" is the incredible amount of misinformation out there. For example your statement regarding Lr2000 being for claims and the county for private property. LR2000 isn't updated constantly and there may have been claims filed up to 90 days ago that won't show up in LR, but the county will be able to tell you about them... so if you just go off LR and head out to the field thinking you are good to go, you might find yourself in the middle of someone else's freshly filed claim! LR is a good place to start and to do a virtual recon of the location, but verifying it through the county is a must.


There is some excellent information on this thread and the above statement is a good explanation for newbies about how not to proceed when looking for prospectable or locatable mineral lands.

I'm glad the members here are so well informed on land status research. So often honest people trying to find out how to proceed are mislead by myth and rumor on other websites and forums. It's refreshing to see correct land status research methods being promoted with such vigor.

I'm not privy to club information but I have noticed a rather important step in public lands research has not been mentioned on the public side of these forums. I'm hoping we can discuss that here without distracting from the good information already provided.

Each federal land management agency has their own land status issues to deal with. These involve things like Land Orders, Acts of Congress, reconveyances, purchased lands, temporary administrative withdrawals and access restrictions. These different land status variations are not represented at the County Assessor, County Recorder or the LR2000.

Luckily these agencies are required to cooperate in mapping and recording all these variations in one central set of documents. These documents are available to the public for free. In Colorado you can find all these public land status documents at the General Land Office website free for download.

A good place to start when investigating public lands status is the Master Title Plat map (MTP) for the Township(s) of interest. From there you may need to investigate any MTP Supplemental maps available as well as the Historical Index and any Control Document Indexes available. Sometimes a trip to the Federal Register may be necessary to clear up the sometimes ambiguous language used in these records.

The type of land status classifications you find on these maps and indexes can help you understand public land areas that are not open to location or require additional steps to complete the location process. In Colorado the main status issues you will encounter are mostly powersite withdrawals, mineral withdrawals and, most commonly, reconveyed lands. There may be several dozens of other issues but each will be indicated on the MTP, Supplements and Indexes.

As a bonus private lands are clearly marked on the MTPs with reference to their conveyance documents and patents. All those documents as well as Patents and Mineral Surveys are also available for free at the General Land Office website. These documents can be very helpful in accurately locating a claim adjacent to private patented land as each Patent and Mineral Survey is described as a legal land description, including metes and bounds.

By studying the Historical Index you can find mineral withdrawals that are expiring soon. In 1980 I located my most productive claim by being the first in to make a location to lands that had been closed to entry for more than 60 years. Research does pay off in unexpected ways sometimes.
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CP
post Mar 7 2015, 06:38 PM
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Thanks for the compliments Clay Diggins, I agree there is some great info discussed in this thread. Unfortunately though you're quite mistaken with the following statement.....

QUOTE
I'm not privy to club information but I have noticed a rather important step in public lands research has not been mentioned on the public side of these forums. I'm hoping we can discuss that here without distracting from the good information already provided.

Each federal land management agency has their own land status issues to deal with. These involve things like Land Orders, Acts of Congress, reconveyances, purchased lands, temporary administrative withdrawals and access restrictions. These different land status variations are not represented at the County Assessor, County Recorder or the LR2000.


We discuss those topics and many many more. Guess we'll add you to the list of readers who should read more around our website to find the good stuff we've discussed and are discussing. Oh and not "club privy" info...just general open forums information available to all. But you will need to delve a bit deeper than novice/beginner threads you tend to favor. happy112.gif


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