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Legalities of prospecting on forest service lands
traddoerr
post Apr 9 2013, 08:33 PM
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This is some great info and I will have to keep this in mind.

I had a situation awhile ago with the FS when I was metal detecting an abandend mine site, when confronted and was told to stop what I was doing because it was against the law, I wasn't exactly passive or compliant. In the long run it did turn out in my favor, but still a pain in the keester.

My question for you guys is, if confronted by the FS while prospecting and such and you are well with-in the law and your rights and the agent tells you to stop your activity's and leave, what would you do to handle this situation?
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swizz
post Apr 9 2013, 09:48 PM
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I would stop the "alleged" illegal activity as requested and ask the NFS employee to specifically explain which law is being broken.... (and be taking names and notes at the same time). Best to comply and be courteous in the field while collecting this information. That's a good start if you are on non-designated "public owned" land and believe you are in the right. NFS employees should have their Forest Service Manual/Handbook with them. If they are citing illegal activity it might be prudent to request that they show you that specific law in their literature.
"Designated" public land is a different story and would be considered "public use" land - rec areas, parks, open spaces, etc. are considered designated or special use. If on special use or designated public lands you have very few to no rights and should bend over politely because you're technically on private property, they often have more delegated authority there..... and there is no 1872 Mining Law precedence or protection on those types of "public use" lands. In many cases they (NFS employees) are commissioned to enforce whatever regulations or rules are in effect for the recreational uses of those areas, kinda like security police. Cache Creek, Clear Creek Open Space, and popular sections of the Arkansas are great examples of this.
Personally....
I prefer to prospect on "public owned" lands as I have a good understanding of my rights there. I'm more comfortable with any confrontation there as it is "MY house".
My house rules are the Mining Laws Of 1872. emoticon-object-018.gif info_grin.gif emoticon-object-018.gif
If on designated "public use" lands... well, that's someone else' "house" and I best play by their house rules (and sometimes they have a LOT of rules). Any of my activities conducted there are considered recreational privileges, not rights, and certainly not mining rights by any stretch.
I know that if I walk through their door and essentially agree to their rules if I expect to stay. soldier.gif
Bottom line: Always be polite, friendly, courteous, and truthful when confronted on either type of public land. If you know where you are and have a good grasp of your rights or privileges (depending on which land you're on) then any interaction with NFS employees should be pleasant and easy to handle. Knowledge breeds confidence. happy088.gif
We've had some great discussions regarding land ownership lately in the protected forum, juicy topic. Possibly an upcoming seminar...


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traddoerr
post Apr 10 2013, 12:57 PM
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Thanks Chris for your reply. I did comply at first but when I asked them were it says its illegal she got angry, so I showed her all my info I keep in a folder that states I was legal, she became ever more angry, I then told her I was going to continue detecting unless she could come up with a law. they(there was 2 of them) went to their truck, came back and said I was detecting on an historical site and then wrote me a ticket, I called the sheriff but they left by the time he got there. Went to court and they lost, not an historical site. Was told by the sheriff if I'm bothered again to call the sheriff right away. I was just wondering what anyone else would due in a situation like this.
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swizz
post Apr 10 2013, 01:39 PM
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I don't think that you could have handled that any better. Kudos!
Hopefully the FS employees got an education from that.
...also, I'm not 100% clear of any special regs pertaining to "historical" designation on public owned lands... even if it was an historical designated area I think you would have been ok. My claim is an historical designated mine (on public owned lands) and has BLM signage to that effect. The land was never withdrawn from mineral entry and the mine remained "active" as far back in the records as I could go when researching. When the owner died I took it over. The issue of "historical" status never came up when I was staking and filing... or anything since and I've been there years now. I even asked the BLM about the historical status (and their goofy sign which I wanted removed) to be sure. The person I spoke with in the BLM office just shrugged it off and said it wasn't an issue. They haven't removed the BLM sign but it doesn't bother me, kinda adds to the charm up there.


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traddoerr
post Apr 10 2013, 03:29 PM
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I to believe I did the right thing. Because of the antiquities law there are areas protected on NFS lands; but these are designated as such, but the USF says it doesn't have to be designated (undiscovered) and this is what they tryed to ticket me for. the USC says 100yrs and older and the CFR's say 50yrs. this is where the judge said BS and ruled in my favor. after looking up on LR2000 it was last held in claim in 1982 and now is currently claimed again but no one was working it last year. I'd like to hear what any body else would do or if they have encountered the same thing.

I plan on going out in an area this year thats all open to mineral claim and metal detecting.
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Caveman
post Apr 10 2013, 03:54 PM
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I would have done as you did, but probably have called the sheriff sooner - I don't handle angry people well. I just say "I'm done talking with you" and call a higher authority. Angry officials tend to be unreasonable, until another uniform shows up. After that, I would have continued what I was doing if I was within my rights, as you turned out to be. I also tend to be also quite obstinate. By the way, was the day successful?


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traddoerr
post Apr 10 2013, 04:02 PM
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No, I only found a couple old nails and some pieces of iron I couldn't tell what it was. Sad, all the old mine sites in this area have been re-claimed. I do better detecting old homes and stuff. there have been many new places open up to detect so I hope to find some old coins this year, if I don't end up in jail smiley-laughing021.gif
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Caveman
post Apr 11 2013, 04:05 PM
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Well, with gold prices the way they are, that's to be expected. I hope they do it safely! There are some old cabins in Grape Creek Canyon. Probably right around 100 years old, though. If it's legal, that might be fun to detect....


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traddoerr
post Apr 11 2013, 08:05 PM
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I hope they plan working those claims, they were all claimed by people/family in Pinecliff, Co. Bet they have something to do with the FS employees I butted heads with.

Those cabins would be great to detect, I have found that some cabins that might be 100yrs old were actually built in the 1920's/30's when the state went through another gold rush and Uranium(sp) rush. You could find out from the county office how old they may be. If there is historical significance to the cabins STAY CLEAR! the FS will make life misarble for ya.
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Caveman
post Apr 12 2013, 12:01 PM
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One can't be more than 50 - 80 years old, the digs around it are too new. the other, I don't know. The trail goes right through the middle of the site of the first, and beside the site of the second. If I could id barbed wire, I could make a guess on the second. It is not new style barbed though, I can tell that much. I don't have a detector, and no plans to buy one. Not my cup of tea, I get too frustrated with them.


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traddoerr
post Apr 12 2013, 01:01 PM
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It may be worth looking into. I know what you mean, detecting at times can be very frustrating bash.gif , but just getting out is worth the effort.
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Caveman
post Apr 12 2013, 02:38 PM
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It is all BLM, not FS, but the FS maintains the trail. The POA owns the land you have to cross to get to it, so you have to come onto Bull Domingo Ranch subdivision. I will be in Westcliffe for the summer, starting the middle of June, so contact me if you want to check it out. It's not a hard or long walk, but it is very dry, so bring lots of water! And a fishing rod, there's some quality trout in the creek.


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traddoerr
post Apr 12 2013, 09:23 PM
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I'll definatly keep that in mind for May, I will actually be down in the westcliff area chasing turkey in may so I'll email you to see if your avalible, I'll throw the detector in the truck along with the hunting gear. Thank, Dennis
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Caveman
post Apr 13 2013, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE (traddoerr @ Apr 12 2013, 10:23 PM) *
I'll definatly keep that in mind for May, I will actually be down in the westcliff area chasing turkey in may so I'll email you to see if your avalible, I'll throw the detector in the truck along with the hunting gear. Thank, Dennis


Unfortunately, I will be on vacation 1st half of May, and back in Broomfield until the middle of June. Good Luck with the turkey hunting!

Scott


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Caveman
post Apr 14 2013, 12:20 PM
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I would like a true rockhound to help me go over the property, though.... no fee, you keep what you find. I would just like to know what I'm looking at/for. Looks like mostly red granite, some gneiss, and some white granite. There is some dark green granite type stone there too.


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