New rules for hunting meteorites Options

[Woody]

Looks like the Feds are stepping up and placing restrictions on collecting meteorites. I recognize the interest and benefit science might have but the way I interpret this means more regulations placed on our public lands and activities. This might be a bit of a rant on my part but I hate all these rules and regulations on our public lands. I am reminded about the last time I was in the California N.F. I wanted to spend a couple of days in the back country camping. I found out that I needed a permit in order to even have a campfire. Here is another extreme, I was in Germany a few years ago and got an annual fishing license. It cost about 100$. However, if you actually wanted to use it you had to go down to the county court house before the last business day, and pay an additional cost for each and every day you planned on fishing. It was about 10$ extra per day.

This kind of suggest the same thing, you can’t go out hunting meteorites unless you buy a permit.



http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/10/15/...intcmp=features

[Gene Kooper]

I must admit that I am baffled at some of the 2012 comments in this thread. I've seen the same statements made in other threads. In particular the red text in this statement, "there isnt ANY BLM/FS land! its public domain land. and we have a Constitutional RIGHT to prospect/mine it". No where in the Constitution can there be found any mention of an individual's right to prospect or mine the Public Lands.

Prior to the Constitution, the Land Ordinance Act of 1785 was passed by the United States Congress of the Confederation in part to pay the Revolutionary War veterans with land in the Ohio Territory. The Constitution does authorize Congress to enact legislation to dispose of and/or manage the Public Lands. The various legislative acts authorize the Executive branch to administer the disposal and management of the Public Lands including promulgating regulations. For example, the General Land Office took over the duties previously assigned to the U.S. Treasury Dept. in 1812. Congress passed many land disposal acts (esp. in the 1800s). They were very interested in developing the natural resources of the Public Lands. Examples are acts that authorized cash entry, preemption, homestead entry, desert land entry, mineral entry, timber culture, stock raising homestead entry, etc. They basically did everything they could to get rid of the Public Lands, including surveying the land prior to sale; what we all call the Public Lands Survey System. My grandparents acquired land in Nebraska through the homesteading acts.

One of the unwritten rights to real property that surveyors deal with is adverse possession. It is well known that the United States Public Lands cannot be adversely possessed. To support this, here is a cite to United States v. California, 332 U.S. 19, 39-40 (1947) which states,

The Government, which holds its interests here as elsewhere in trust for all the people, is not to be deprived of those interests by the ordinary court rules designed particularly for private disputes over individually owned pieces of property; and officers who have no authority at all to dispose of Government property cannot by their conduct cause the Government to lose its valuable rights by their acquiescence, laches, or failure to act.

My reason for emphasizing this is that the United States holds its ownership of the Public Lands in trust for "We the People". However, that doesn't mean that I get to go and arbitrarily occupy a portion of the Public Lands and call it mine. The nitwits that occupied Malheur Wildlife Refuge last winter are now facing the consequences of their misunderstanding of this principle.

As I said above, no where in the U.S. Constitution is there language that provides any right to prospect or mine the Public Lands. The Act of July 26, 1866 is the first legislation that allowed for the possessory right to locatable minerals and obtaining a patent. It wasn't limited to U.S. citizens. An alien could stake and hold a mining claim as long as they actively sought to become a citizen. Before they obtained a patent they had to be a naturalized citizen. The patent application for a mining claim included a form that affirmed that the applicant was a U.S. citizen by birth or naturalization. The General Land Office was also authorized to promulgate regulations regarding the disposal of mineral lands.

One of the reasons that I posted the thread on mining laws and regulations was to show that the laws and rulz changed over time. For example, if my ancestor filed a placer claim for petroleum in 1918 and that placer claim was maintained for the last 98 years, then I not only have the right to the oil and gas, I can also exclude anyone from entering, camping, grazing, etc. on that claim. My ancestor's rights cannot be restricted by legislation and/or regulations enacted or implemented after the right was acquired. Now, should I have a lapse in memory and fail to pay my annual maintenance fee by Sept. 1, I have nothing. I cannot restake the placer for petroleum since the 1920 Mineral Leasing Act would be in effect. I cannot forbid multiple use on the claim as FLPMA and Public Law 167 would also be in effect.

I'm sure others here will disagree with my statements. Great! I look forward to a discussion on the merits of our differing opinions. Then maybe we can discuss whether mineral specimens are included in the current definition of a locatable mineral. My impression is that they are not locatable minerals.

[EMac]

My reason for emphasizing this is that the United States holds its ownership of the Public Lands in trust for "We the People". However, that doesn't mean that I get to go and arbitrarily occupy a portion of the Public Lands and call it mine. The nitwits that occupied Malheur Wildlife Refuge last winter are now facing the consequences of their misunderstanding of this principle.

Trial Opens