dredging help Options

[CODIVER]

ok ive been reading the rules and regs on this site and with the blm and others. Turns out im just getting more and more confused

can I go down to the river on blm, forest service land that is not claimed and run the dredge as long as i dont disturb more than 1600 ft of material ?
or do I have to file a notice of what I want to do? not looking to claim a area, more just mess around with my equipment.

I will be using a dredge under 4in and with a 5.5 hp

am I safe ?

thanks for any help

[swizz]

Hi CODIVER,
I will attempt to clarify this to the best of my ability (anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
You may run your 4" dredge on "most" NFS and BLM managed lands.
There are 'specified' or 'designated' areas where you may not run your dredge (or other motorized equipment) on BLM or NFS managed lands however.
These 'specified' or 'designated' areas are usually listed as (but not limited to): "National Park", "State Park", "State Forest", "Recreation Area", "Open Space", "Refuge", "Wilderness", "Watershed", or any other "designated" BLM or NFS managed lands. Such lands are subject to any regulations or bans on mineral removal that the managing agency sees fit. As a result you typically can not use motorized equipment (often no mineral removal at all) within these 'designated' NFS and BLM manged lands.
First determine which BLM or NFS land you would like to specifically dredge, next find out whether or not it has 'special use' designation. If it is 'special use', check the specific rules/regs/possible permits for that 'special use' area. Then research that location for claims, private property, or if a Cert Of Location has been filed within the last 90 days (County Clerk Recorder). If free & clear on those issues you should be good to go! There are no permits necessary for a 4" dredge in Colorado for 'non-designated' BLM and NFS lands which are open to mineral entry.
It sounds kinda complicated but it really isn't. Colorado has many many many miles of river and stream open to motorized collection (hand carried, non-mechanized).
You are correct regarding the 1600sf disturbance. 1600sf is a very large mass.... it would take you years to move that much from one location with a 4" dredge. Don't worry yourself too much about that at this stage.
Hope this helps!

[CP]

Hi CODIVER,

Yes you should be fine out there as Swizz said, no need to worry about NOI's at that level of prospecting.

Couple of clarifications though......the laws/regs read "hand carried equipment" no special authorization needed.....but do not add extra words with non-mechanized..... That would refer to the law reading "earth moving equipment such as backhoes"..........hand carried dredges or highbankers are not in that catagory....so don't add them to the catagory for the officials frame of mind either.
Officials would love to add them there but they have no law/authority to do it!

But.........as Swizz also said, there are "specially designated areas" where special rules for that single site can be adminstered. Again though, lets not add in any wording that shouldn't be.
National parks/monuments are federal land...special rules
Recreational areas withdrawn from mineral entry......special rules
Wilderness areas NOT WITHDRAWN FROM MINERAL ENTRY AND PROSPECTING IS STILL ALLOWED! The law for wilderness areas specifies that prospecting is still allowed.

State park, state forest, and open space shouldn't be included in the public land catagory ever as they all must be viewed as private lands held privately by those department entitities....Yes they can make any rule they wish just like any other private land holder.

Refuges and watersheds also shouldn't be included in the catagory of specially designated as those don't apply to FS or BLM always and are for the wildlife and water. Watersheds especially which encompass large areas including public and private lands cumulatively.

Does sound complicated but really it isn't like Swizz said, hopefully this helps clear it up some and remember before you dig up 1600 sq ft.......those digs should be reclaimend when you leave unless you'll be returning in 24 hours to continue prospecting. If you were to ever file a claim on a sweet spot then that 24 hour return guideline is out the window of course.....That's speaking in terms of prospecting open land prior to claiming.

You'll be fine out there on open lands, just double check the home work and have a great time.

CP

[swizz]

[CODIVER]

Thanks for the info guys, the more I read the more intimidated I became. Next question, when I got to the river today my buddy was talking with a DOW officer about what he knew with the laws. He said he truly did not know the laws and regs but was concerned for the fish spawning in the river. He said he didnt care what we did, but when the fish are spawning he would probably say something to us. As far as I read, there is no closure for spawning fish. He was concerned the eggs would get covered in silt. He said we should call the Army Corps of Engineers. Does that make sense? Thanks again for the layman's terms.

[russau]

awhile back, i read that ALL waters in the United States were being given to the COE for management,and probly theyll pass this off to another department(FS for enforcement). this would include ALL waters,streams,ponds,flood zones,private and public! yep your pond that you built could be controlled by them and you could be cited for different things that you want to do in your pond! i havent heard anymore lately about it untill now that you mentioned it.

[leonard]

Where are you located?

Leonard

[CP]

Silt concerns during spring run off? I'm suprised the DOW officer was concerned at all, this is the time of year run off can and often does turn entire creek systems brown (silt or turbidity) for weeks or even a month or more. If the fish are spawning at or near the time ma' nature does this every year, what's the silt from one small dredge a concern for?!

The US Corp of Engineers does regulate waterways/water with authority being delegated out to states for onsite enforcement as I understand it.
However they do not regulate dredges or highbankers of this size as the have been classified as "diminimus" or not causes of "significant surface resource disturbance".
Here's a link to a thread showing a letter I had to secure while organizing/hosting the Rocky Mountain Miners Rally in 2004. Russ was there and I'm sure he'll remember this thread when he reads it again.
With this letter we had the ok to run up to 6 units of 4" or less intakes on one claim that happened to also be a superfund site.....Yep the event happened and nope they didn't have any permit/regualtion or concerns from their office for the event.
http://www.coloradoprospector.com/forums/i...p?showtopic=213
I just used the quick search feature and entered "corps" to find this thread.

Check out that thread and letter from US ACE, it's a handy reference to keep around.

CP

[russau]

man that brought back some good memories! i had a copy of that still in my folders that i bring with me dredgeing. but i copied it again. Thanks for the memories!

[swizz]

Next question, when I got to the river today my buddy was talking with a DOW officer about what he knew with the laws. He (DOW officer) said he truly did not know the laws and regs but was concerned.....

That quote got stuck in my craw

In my humble opinion...
While in the field - It is usually not good practice to ask a land or game management employee/officer any legality-based questions regarding your operation. Ever.
In this case it appears that your interaction was neutral but I find it a bit discerning that the DOW officer felt it necessary to air his "concerns" or personal opinion at all.
"Opinions" and "concerns" mixed with a federal or state employee uniform sometimes lend themselves to employee ignorance and blind-authority in the field. He already admitted that "he truly did not know the laws and regs".
As a game officer, I doubt that he is required to know the mining laws and/or regs.... or even authorized to enforce them unless you are using a freshly killed bloody Elk hide as sluice matting.
It is best to know exactly what your rights (or regulations) are for the area you are working any time that you walk out the door with your gear. There should never be any reason for you to 'ask' a federal or state employee what your rights or regulations are while in the field. If you don't know your rights or have a firm grasp on the laws & regs for the area you are working... you shouldn't be there.
Again, this is just my opinion and I feel it is good practice to refrain from "asking" them legal questions but always be prepared to answer any of theirs.
Be well-armed with knowledge. Everything you need to know can be found here... consider CP your armory.
One more note: If a fed, state, or county employee/officer ever asks you to "STOP"...you must stop mining immediately, regardless if their definition or interpretation of the law is correct or incorrect.

[russau]

very good advice/comment Swizz!