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Just a thought...., from Coalbunny
Coalbunny
post Dec 2 2014, 09:28 PM
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Just a thought....

A few years ago I almost bought a few patented claims in Lake county colorado, and the county was telling me that even though they were patented mining claims, I would be prohibited by law from doing anything more than "recreational mining" because they were, as the county said "registered as patented recreational mining claims". They had no law to back it up and unless I was willing to dump tens of thousands of dollars sueing the county, it wasn't worth the fight.


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Clay Diggins
post Dec 2 2014, 09:48 PM
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Thanks for sharing your experience.

Mining Claims are Patented under the 1866 Mining Act (Not the 1872 Act). I imagine someone here has a link to the full text of that Act. If not I would be glad to post the text here.

There is no concept in State or Federal law or the Mining Acts that includes "recreational mining" much less a "recreational mining patent". As such whoever told you that was making stuff up. Not uncommon in my experience.

All that you needed was on the Patent Grant. You should rely on the Patent Grant, it's the highest form of title in the United States. In mining and property law you will learn to trust the documents - not the officials.

Not sure what a County has to do with mining but things may be different in Colorado than in the rest of the United States.
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CP
post Dec 3 2014, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE (Coalbunny @ Dec 2 2014, 08:28 PM) *
Just a thought....

A few years ago I almost bought a few patented claims in Lake county colorado, and the county was telling me that even though they were patented mining claims, I would be prohibited by law from doing anything more than "recreational mining" because they were, as the county said "registered as patented recreational mining claims". They had no law to back it up and unless I was willing to dump tens of thousands of dollars sueing the county, it wasn't worth the fight.



I've pulled these posts from the taxing unpatented claims thread and started another here since your thought was on patented claim ownership.

Actually Coalbunny, there is no fight with the county as I see it needed for that situation. They/you already stated the obvious when saying " They had no law to back it up "........ End of story. That's all you needed if you would have in fact purchased the property and been the owner. No law to back their proclamations then the proclamations mean nothing. Just words to waste your air space that particular day.

I will also add for others reading in the future that county entities do play a part in mining depending on topic, no matter what state or county......it's not "different" here in Colorado than any other states.


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fenixsmom
post Dec 3 2014, 11:23 AM
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Do you mind expanding on that thought Dan? How do county entities play a part in future mining? I can understand them buying mineral rights and regulating prospecting within city limits. Do they effect federal lands at all?
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CP
post Dec 3 2014, 11:40 AM
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No I don't think they "effect federal lands" per say but there are things that one will deal with during claim ownership and mine operations that will require county gov involvement to complete. Most importantly being enforcement if the claim owner needs help with a "situation" where their claim ownership rights are being violated by anyone or officials even, you'll need to call the county sheriff for that.

Another situation might be structures erected on sight at the mine (county regulates buildings and codes to meet those), also using county roads to move larger loads (equipment and or ore loads) over those roads will most certainly have county requirements for roads, bridges and even time frames of ops in some areas.

Like I said though there are many facets where the county could come into play for a claim owner depending on topic at hand concerning a particular claim/mine or it's ops.

If a county actually purchases the land and then is the "owner" it's probably going into open space like Jefferson county has and they can make up any rules and restrictions they desire as private land owners.

Just a few thoughts where the county could be in play but there are many others situations where county's might be involved at some level. But never to dictate by proclamations to a prospective land owner as Lake county apparently did to Coalbunny. The county employees in every county are in fact forbidden by law from giving any legal advice period....Just an FYI

Hope this helps some.


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fenixsmom
post Dec 3 2014, 11:43 AM
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Ahhh! I never thought of those situations! Thanks Dan!!!
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Clay Diggins
post Dec 3 2014, 01:52 PM
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Thanks for moving the thread Dan. :)
This really has nothing to do with mining under the Federal Grant.

You are correct in everything you stated about the counties. They can have an effect on mining operation logistics on private lands by all the means you stated and probably quite a few more.

My statement about mining and county regulation may have been taken in too broad a context. My bad. Let me clarify.

Mining regulation, on private lands, is the domain of the State. Colorado State has enacted mining regulations and prohibited the counties from enlarging those regulations in any way. The counties still have land use regulatory authority through zoning laws but they can not make their own restrictions on mining itself. This has been reinforced through State level legislation - the MLRA as well as several important court cases at the appeals level as well as the Colorado State Supreme Court.

Each State deals with this differently but the effect is the same. Counties can not enact mining laws that restrict mining on private lands any further than State Statutes. This has to do with the State's Supremacy Clause and Preemption much as Federal mining laws supersede and preempt State regulation on Federal lands.

All of this gets pretty confusing at times because the County does have authority to, as an example, prevent mining on previously zoned residential land (prior use permit) but they can't rezone to prevent existing mining. They can insist on mine remediation within their county but they can't exceed State standards in that enforcement. A County can't ban a particular mining process or method that is allowed under State law.

I hope that helps others understand their mining rights on private lands.

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swizz
post Dec 3 2014, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (Clay Diggins @ Dec 3 2014, 12:52 PM) *
A County can't ban a particular mining process or method that is allowed under State law.

They most certainly CAN and DO when the land is owned by the County. They can restrict or ban any mining or mining process they wish on County owned land. They often ban any form of mining altogether on county owned lands as demonstrated in the County of Boulder on so many parcels. Same goes for City owned lands. Another great example here in Colorado would be JeffoCo Open Space. They (the County) decided to allow prospecting but in a limited form.


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Clay Diggins
post Dec 3 2014, 06:04 PM
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Of course that's true swizz. Just as with any property owner the county can determine what they will permit on their property.

We were discussing private patented property. That is clearly the subject of my statement "A County can't ban a particular mining process or method that is allowed under State law."

Perhaps another thread would be appropriate if you wish to discuss mining on county property?
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swizz
post Dec 3 2014, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Clay Diggins @ Dec 3 2014, 05:04 PM) *
Perhaps another thread would be appropriate if you wish to discuss mining on county property?

Your sarcasm is duly noted.


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