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Posted by: zziipp Feb 18 2015, 05:43 PM

I am having trouble getting a straight answer from the officials in Colorado. Can someone please tell me how to obtain permits or stake a claim on Mt. Antero. What is my first step

Posted by: fenixsmom Feb 18 2015, 06:30 PM

Buy a topo map of the area. Locate the township information. Go to blm website and use LR2000 to check if there are unpatented claims in the area you are interested in. Next if you find an area without claims you'll want to go to the county recorder with the township info to search for patented claims and anything filed within 90 days. Then get your boots on the ground and search the area for ground markers and notices of intended claim.

Posted by: fenixsmom Feb 18 2015, 06:36 PM

http://www.coloradoprospector.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2638
Here is the pinned thread you'll want.

Posted by: Rocket Feb 18 2015, 07:20 PM

The great members of CP can walk you through actually filing the claim and the responsibilities that go with it. Before you can do that, you will need to do some research to know both active claims in the area of interest (from the BLM) and land status (ownership, from the county assessor's office).

The BLM website: http://www.blm.gov/lr2000/ Read the instructions, change your internet settings (directions on their website) if needed, then click on Run Report. Click on Pub MC Geo Report. The easiest/fastest method is run a report for the entire county. Otherwise the info you enter has to be extremely accurate and can be exasperating. Save it as a PDF to save yourself a ream of paper if there are a lot of claims in the area. To get the exact location of any claim you will need to visit the BLM office in Lakewood and provide the CMC number to get the claimant's map with detail of location markers.

The Chaffe County Assessors records:http://www.google.com/url?url=http://qpublic.net/co/chaffee/&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=fzPlVP3XJ86vogSouYLoDQ&ved=0CEcQFjAK&usg=AFQjCNFrQI20Z4z9q0XCLZJK2ZZpAtqskA qpublic.net/co/chaffee/.

There is a really nice feature on this website that lets you view the parcels in Google Earth so you can see their location outline on the mountain. These are private property parcels.

From the USGS website http://www.usgs/gov you can download Topo maps in PDF for free. I made my own enlarged maps from these (lots of rubber cement and clear duck tape on the back) so I could make notes on them, highlight parcels not open to prospecting, and who owns the roads for access to your claim. Remember to check PLSS on your topo Map Frame to get the Section Township and Range printed on the map. Decide how many terrain features you want so your map isn't too messy. I like going with just shaded relief. Once you get the maps from the BLM you can draw them on your personal topo.

Google Earth is the only location I've found that offers Latitude and Longitude with the mouse movement - maybe someone else has found something better. You can prospect by computer using Google Earth and coordinate it with the claim map details from the BLM files.

Seems it's more about where NOT to prospect, and the rest of the mountain is yours to explore.

What did I leave out, Colorado Prospectors?

Rocket

Posted by: fenixsmom Feb 18 2015, 07:45 PM

County clerk and recorder, not assessor. I made that mistake a lot!

Posted by: MikeS Feb 18 2015, 10:47 PM

Right Rocket, even if you go into it with the mindset of finding where to prospect you will still need to find out where not to prospect first.

There is quite a bunch more to land research then listed above. I have seen several folks try to lay it out in one post or list of links but so far I find them all lacking(no offense). One of the most important things that is often left out is the follow up research on the ground which I see as vital. My claim is a perfect example. After I staked my claim I waited to almost the end of the 90 day time limit to file my claim. That means for almost 3 months my claim was not on record at the county. BLM or LR2000. It was not on file anywhere but it was still a valid claim and would still be mineral trespass to dig there.

The closest thing to a one stop shop for learning to do it right is this wonderful Club and website as a whole. It surely will not fit in one post.

Posted by: MikeS Feb 18 2015, 11:26 PM

Hi zziipp! Welcome to the forums!

Don't count on the officials to give you a strait answer because often times they don't understand either. You do not need a permit or a claim to prospect on Federal Public Lands that are open to mineral entry. You do need to make sure that the land is open for prospecting and that you are not digging on someones claim(unless you have permission from the claim owner). Once you are certain that you are on legal ground then you can prospect without notifying anyone or filling out any paperwork. It is your right to prospect your public lands!(Federal)

Posted by: Rocket Feb 23 2015, 12:30 PM

How about getting answers straight from the officials.

Here are some BLM links to the BLM Colorado Mining Claim Packet and "Locate a Mine Claim or Site" and lots of official information and FAQ. Note there are additional links to USFS and more at the bottom of their website.

http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/BLM_Programs/minerals/locatable_minerals/locatable/colorado_mining_claim.html

http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/BLM_Programs/minerals/locatable_minerals/locatable/describing_mining_claims.html

Also, the county assessor's office is the on-line source for free land status records (private property) for many counties. The suggestion to purchase a plat map for your area of interest is a great idea especially for counties that are not on-line.

Rocket

Posted by: Rocket Feb 23 2015, 12:53 PM

Google "How do I get a platt map for Chaffee County"

Rocket

Posted by: swizz Feb 23 2015, 01:14 PM

"Straight from the officials"?? They are not the "officials", they are nothing more than a management agency. Same goes for the USFS.
I would highly recommend NOT consulting either management agency. By law they are not permitted to give advice. Their job is to enforce the law, not explain it in their own personal terms or interpretations.... which they often try to do unfortunately.
BEST ADVICE: Know the law before any interactions with either agency.
Also "assessor's office" is incorrect for land status research regarding claim boundaries and most recent Certificate of Locations or Location Notice filed. These are most important.
The correct office for researching those critical values is the County Clerk and Recorder. Other valuable information is held on file at the BLM HQ Public Room located in Lakewood.

I'm familiar with the Mining Claim Packet you linked. I have it on file here at home. Mostly good information but they also have tidbits of misinformation that I've found.
The USFS "packets" and "informational" garbage they propagate pertaining to mining are often riddled with misinformation. Absolutely the last place you would want to inquire, ever. Many think of them as being at war with mining. Based on what I've seen and read here and on other forums.... and all of the recent court cases won by miners (mostly California) I have to agree. The USFS in particular is somewhat of a rogue management agency that often misinterprets mining law. And they PAY for it bigtime when someone calls them to the carpet.

That's why this club is here for you and everyone.
Miner Beware: KNOW your rights BEFORE talking to either of these management agencies.

Posted by: Somethin' Else Feb 23 2015, 02:40 PM

I would like to hear some stories about your encounters with government types and the experience you have had with standing up for your miners rights. Since there is so much misinformation out there, perhaps personal testimonies would be more informative. What can we expect to encounter out there? And how many of you have had to go to court over mining issues? And how much has it cost you (dollar-wise) to take your case to court, win or lose?

Posted by: swizz Feb 23 2015, 02:56 PM

I can speak from my personal experiences.
I own two mining claims and have had nothing but good experiences with the BLM management agency. This is because I know my rights prior to engaging the management agency. There should be no questions or confusion in their office if YOU know the laws and rights prior to addressing issues. I've chosen to address several issues on my claims (via my regional BLM office) and all resulted in cooperation and success because I know my rights as a claim owner and the proper course of exercising them.

Significant recent and pending court cases, if you seek them, shouldn't be difficult to find. The recent Rinehart case is getting the most press lately and a stunning example of the USFS' apparent prerogative, ignorance, and arrogance. The USFS is out of control in California but slowly being reigned back in... at the cost of taxpayers of course.

Posted by: Rocket Feb 23 2015, 07:11 PM

Glad to hear you have had good experience with the BLM.

Did you notice that the Mining Claim Packet is from the BLM?

To clarify another point for other readers, the BLM website (LR2000) is for locating mine claim ownership and the County Assessor's office (for on-line info) and County Clerk and Recorder are for private property ownership.

Sorry to hear you have had bad experience with the Forest Service. So readers can discern misinformation for themselves, here is the link for the US Forest Service Handbook.

www.fs.fed.us/dirindexhome/dughtml/fsm.html

Explore the links to get to the official (ooooo! there's that terrible word) websites for the laws and regs and forms.
What is the problem with complying with these requirements, staying within the laws? We are professional miners are we not?

Posted by: Crusty Feb 23 2015, 07:19 PM

Part of the problem with "complying with these requirements, staying within the laws" is the incredible amount of misinformation out there. For example your statement regarding Lr2000 being for claims and the county for private property. LR2000 isn't updated constantly and there may have been claims filed up to 90 days ago that won't show up in LR, but the county will be able to tell you about them... so if you just go off LR and head out to the field thinking you are good to go, you might find yourself in the middle of someone else's freshly filed claim! LR is a good place to start and to do a virtual recon of the location, but verifying it through the county is a must.

Posted by: swizz Feb 23 2015, 07:37 PM

You have that bass ackwards friend. Assessor's office is for researching private property and Patented Claims. County Clerk/Recorder is for researching Location Claims. In addition.... County Clerk/Recorder info is NOT required to be available "on-line" as you suggest above. Many in Colorado are NOT available "on-line' and require a visit or can be obtained through mail request. Some offer "on-line" access and usually charge a nominal fee. We have a breakdown in the Protected Forum that shows which Counties charge what for the service (if available), quite pricey. Many Counties do not offer the "on-line info" service AT ALL PERIOD. The County where my claims reside do NOT offer "on-line info" as you suggest above. It is NOT a legal County requirement nor mining law that they post public records "on-line".


I have not had a bad experience with the USFS. I have never had a mining related encounter with them. The USFS Handbook is not mining law and truly not the best source for information... for many reasons....

Posted by: MikeS Feb 23 2015, 07:40 PM

When I filed my first claim at the BLM office they tried to misfile my claim several times before I was able to get the person behind the counter to understand their own procedure for filing a "bridge claim" (see rockets second link). Luckily I knew what I was doing otherwise my claim could have been invalidated. The BLM folks are nice but don't count on them to know even their own rules.


The Mining Claim Packet was not too bad before the new revisions. Now I would say it is filled with garbage. Even the first section "Notice to mining claimaints" has inaccurate and misleading info. The BLM or NF are not supposed to give legal advice. They will gladly print this packet to express their opinion though.
The second link posted to the Colorado BLM is likely the best page I have seen the BLM put out but it is still lacking.

Posted by: swizz Feb 23 2015, 07:41 PM

100% correct.

Posted by: swizz Feb 23 2015, 07:42 PM

Also 100% correct.

Posted by: Somethin' Else Feb 25 2015, 08:30 AM

I've visited the US Forest Service Handbook website and found it was only useful in its conspicuous lack of information on mining. The index had a heading called Minerals & Geology, under which it said "No Handbook."




All the resources you all have mentioned in this thread are useful for gathering information on the area you want to prospect. There appears to be some confusion about vocabulary and word definitions. The BLM website is the most helpful in information on mining laws and staking mining claims. Browse through all their publications. There is even one that shows how long/wide your claim must be when staking it and what size markers you need to place. The BLM's LR2000 can print out a list of active, closed, pending and void claims, but as one of you mentioned it can lag 90 days in the posting of information. That's where the county clerk comes in. But I have seen on the BLM documents where it isn't required to file a claim with the county. I hope that's changed. Since LR2000 no longer posts the maps, the county clerk is maybe the only place you'll find maps with detailed location marker locations.

The county assessor's records are for surface land ownership information, so you can see who owns what. Wilderness areas, wildlife areas, as well as private property ownerships and even public land ownerships show up on the GIS map with parcel boundaries overlayed on aerial maps. Topographic maps downloaded for free from store.usgs.gov also have an aerial imagery layer and PLSS (Sec-Twp-Rge) lines you can add to your map to help you identify land features and plan your prospecting trip.

There may be other resources to help you compile information. Knowledge is power. I googled Mount Antero (as an example) and got maps and a history of the area, including mining history. Very interesting. Happy prospecting.

Posted by: ColoradoProspector Mar 6 2015, 09:51 AM

Great input everyone! I've moved this thread on over to the laws and regulations section and I'd also suggest that readers (zziipp, Rocket, Somethin' Else) browse this same section for a lot more information than found at the gov webpages.
Knowledge is power!

Posted by: Clay Diggins Mar 7 2015, 11:39 AM

There is some excellent information on this thread and the above statement is a good explanation for newbies about how not to proceed when looking for prospectable or locatable mineral lands.

I'm glad the members here are so well informed on land status research. So often honest people trying to find out how to proceed are mislead by myth and rumor on other websites and forums. It's refreshing to see correct land status research methods being promoted with such vigor.

I'm not privy to club information but I have noticed a rather important step in public lands research has not been mentioned on the public side of these forums. I'm hoping we can discuss that here without distracting from the good information already provided.

Each federal land management agency has their own land status issues to deal with. These involve things like Land Orders, Acts of Congress, reconveyances, purchased lands, temporary administrative withdrawals and access restrictions. These different land status variations are not represented at the County Assessor, County Recorder or the LR2000.

Luckily these agencies are required to cooperate in mapping and recording all these variations in one central set of documents. These documents are available to the public for free. In Colorado you can find all these public land status documents at the http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/default.aspx website free for download.

A good place to start when investigating public lands status is the Master Title Plat map (MTP) for the Township(s) of interest. From there you may need to investigate any MTP Supplemental maps available as well as the Historical Index and any Control Document Indexes available. Sometimes a trip to the Federal Register may be necessary to clear up the sometimes ambiguous language used in these records.

The type of land status classifications you find on these maps and indexes can help you understand public land areas that are not open to location or require additional steps to complete the location process. In Colorado the main status issues you will encounter are mostly powersite withdrawals, mineral withdrawals and, most commonly, reconveyed lands. There may be several dozens of other issues but each will be indicated on the MTP, Supplements and Indexes.

As a bonus private lands are clearly marked on the MTPs with reference to their conveyance documents and patents. All those documents as well as Patents and Mineral Surveys are also available for free at the General Land Office website. These documents can be very helpful in accurately locating a claim adjacent to private patented land as each Patent and Mineral Survey is described as a legal land description, including metes and bounds.

By studying the Historical Index you can find mineral withdrawals that are expiring soon. In 1980 I located my most productive claim by being the first in to make a location to lands that had been closed to entry for more than 60 years. Research does pay off in unexpected ways sometimes.

Posted by: ColoradoProspector Mar 7 2015, 06:38 PM

Thanks for the compliments Clay Diggins, I agree there is some great info discussed in this thread. Unfortunately though you're quite mistaken with the following statement.....

We discuss those topics and many many more. Guess we'll add you to the list of readers who should read more around our website to find the good stuff we've discussed and are discussing. Oh and not "club privy" info...just general open forums information available to all. But you will need to delve a bit deeper than novice/beginner threads you tend to favor.