Chat Conference Room, Good meetings...How often? Options

[CP]

The Conference room will be continuing and we thought everyone could give a little input and say what they think.
We will of course talk about topics and times of day/evening as well.
Give us your input folks. The chat conferences have some great possibilities. :)

[thegeno]

The conference on Wed. was awesome ( I read the transcript).. Sorry I didn't attend, and will try to meet up with you for the next one.... the only problem is the time zone thing...
geno

[Coalbunny]

Wed. is really hard for me as I have meetings weekly at the same time.
Carl

[Denise]

Once we figure out how often, than we will be addressing what days and times.

[jmann]

Thank you Denise, Im sure others might prefer a different day and time so more could/will attend. I also had to leave much to early. It was a great pluse to host this meeting for any/all miners to. Once again Dan and Denise have stepped up to the plate. And once again there efforts have been rewarded with a huge victory for the miners. Lets all try to keep this rolling. Thank You again D&D Joe

[Redpaw]

Most club meetings are on tuesdays and thursdays for some reason?....I'm thinking Wednesday.

[Coalbunny]

Dave, I don't know about others but I have weekly meetings at the firehall on wednesdays. Not a lot I can do about it.

A lot of groups pick Wednesdays.
Carl

[gold_tutor]

Nice job re: your hosting of 700-J comment dealie with the no show Cooper and Walt the stand in.

It is always incumbent upon an "electronic appearing guest speaker" to see that equipment and internet access are reliable prior to commiting to a live appearance, since there is no tape delay.

For Mr. Cooper to be a "no show"--I was not personally satisfied for his telephonic relay of whatever to Mr. Walt-- for lack of preparation was inexcuseable in my opinion.

Mr. Walt tried to be a faithful stand-in, but frankly, I came to hear Cooper, and NOT to hear 3rd hand reports from Mr. Cooper's superior--Mr. Walt-- nor 3rd hand via a telephone "relays."

In a court of law...that all amounts to hearsay and is insufficient there as well, to not able to make it into the "record" in a court proceeding.

The questions of the attendees were intelligent, articulate, and showed deep concern.
I do frankly feel if Mr. Cooper were to have attended electronically as he committed to, Cooper would have been able to give valuable legal cites from his work. AND, I feel he would have been prepared to state why one cite was preferred over another cite which was not quoted or perceived to be as strong, etc.

I felt the caliber of the contributions and cites by those in attendance showed preparation on the part of the attendees as well as desire for more of that kind of specificity from Mr. Walt, and understandably so, which was severely lacking.

Those attendees who provided specificity in their cites were looking for strong or weak points in their arguments presumeably to strengthen their own comments' submissions. I've heard no one speak up as to their disappointment in this matter except myself. If I'm the only one who thinks this was a major weakness in the event, then so be it.

We all must remember, conflicting state guidelines vs. Federal NDPES/CWA/EPA, etc ., ad nauseum is a state by state matter.

However, it is that very conflict that causes the most consternation in us as miners.

Since measuring degrees of consternation doesn't win legal battles, the missing discussion of Federal Citations and why the wording in the comment was thus and so, does NOT help miners in other states who are facing similar legal challenges to their right to mine. There were many NON-Oreongian's in the chat, and that is a good thing.

However, their efforts to respond in their respective states, and mount legal challenges to erroneous legal applications in their respective states vs. Federal mumbo jumbo was missing, due to the "MIA" Cooper--legal and environmental planner extraordinaire.

We all know by now, that "comments" don't mean we just say what is on the top of our heads, or as the result of steam building up between our ears over an issue that is burning in our bellies as continuously disparaged miners.

Comments if proferred must be in a "defensable format" so that ultimate legal challenges can be brought forward by those commenting. Or to put it another way, we can "respond" all day long, but unless we are willing to sue, we might as well just discuss our beefs amongst ourselves in private grousing sessions.

It is my hope that future free-for-all conferences so graciously offered and superbly moderated by Dan & Denise would be as well attended as this 700-J Oregon Miners vs. Oregon DEQ. (Dept of Enviro Quality)

It is also my hope that future free-for-all conferences would be as well attended and that attendees' numbers continue to increase.

It is further my hope that presenters will be more adequately prepared, equipment wise, to participate as promised and that we not be treated to a stand in. It shows disrespect for our time and our commitments.

It is also my hope that future live conferences be on matters not of legal nature, at least occasionally. How sad if the only time we gather is either at a funeral or a legal equivalent of "Miners!!! STARRRRRRRRT YOUR SHOVELS!

Dan and Denise have offered and proven themselves technically capable of handling a major event. And it is a repeatable activity, and one they are showing tremendous leadership in providing. How exciting for the forum.

I for one will attend what and whenever I can, regardless of the night offered, depending upon topic presented. We all will.

I see no reason to not repeat a topic on a second night, if the presenter is willing to show up twice on the same topic. A second or third visit to the same topic gives participants chances to think, question, or review relevant points and enrich future similar events.

None of us learn all we want to learn or gets to say all we want to say. This 700-J is long from rolling over and being buried. And the sons of 700-J in other states is just beginning to be unleashed upon the miners in those states.

A big thank you to Dan and Denise. "A+" to the both of you.

An "E" for effort grade for Mr. Cooper, altho' he does get an "A" in what he compiled and submitted to GPAA sponsored EAJ's Mr. Walt.

An "E" for effort grade to Mr. Walt who tried valiantly to "fill in."

An "A+++" to EAJ for stepping into this cowpie with us!!!

An "A" to all mining interested parties who participated, even if they were there just as supporters because they don't have an "Oregon dog in this hunt."

Megan

[Coalbunny]

Megan, the government employees do this because they can. What's gonna happen to them if it's taken to court and tossed out as illegal (like has been done <how many times?> in the past)? Nada. Nothing, baby. Not a damn thing. they're just gonna try it from another angle. WHY?!?!?!

Because they have nothing to fear in lawsuits. They are protected by the federal government. If they are sued personally for acts they did in the "lawful" (that's a trick word in itself) performance of their duties, and they get sued, they get reimbursed.

This got me in trouble a few times last year on these forums. because I talk big and bad about how we should handle these issues.

Someone has more to fear through getting their legs broke than through getting sued. They don't feel the law suit as well as they do the "other" option. And this attitude of mine scared a lot of the propectors I met. Personally, I can't see the reason for the fear. Nothing for them to fear.

Mega, how many times in the past 30 years have miners won their lawsuits against the state and federal governments? Give me a number. Now with that number, how many times have these eco-terrorists backed off? How many times have laws been passed to benefit us prospectors? Is it greater than 10%, Megan? I betcha it's less.

Now if we used the "other" alternative, how many of them eco-terrorists would we have to worry about today?

Just curious,
Carl

[WALT]

Dear Megan: This is to provide some thoughts regarding your recent post (a critique of the recent meeting) It may have been better for Mr. Cooper to have been online himself but, we know, (at EAJ), that he was there. I don't remember any questions (at the meeting) regarding the selection of cites. However, the leading opposing cites were provided in the EAJ comments and an explanation as to the reason they were inapplicable given. To recap; those two cases held that Army Corp is subject to State regulation of dredging. Since the issue was whether EPA could regulate dredging, (issue a General NPDES Permit for the State of Oregon) those holdings did not apply. If you read the cases cited you will see this for yourself. If you have any other citations you would like our comment upon, please provide them. Walt Eason

[CP]

So far we have Mondays and Tuesdays tied and once a week is tied with bi-weekly.

Megan, Thank you for your detailed thoughts on the first conference.

I would like to say that we would have loved to have Dan Cooper with us but things do happen and I personally felt that Walt wrote the comments along with Dan and took them as such.

As for the EAJ's comments, I thought they were right on the money.
The proposed permit would be illegal and the comments seemed to be headed in the right direction. (in my opinion)

For miners in other states...How do we apply these comments?
Very Very good question, and Megan also brought up the reason why we all ask.......conflicts between state and federal guidelines....

Matter of fact..... I just decided on the next conference topic ..... "Federal and State guidelines.....How do they work? and why."
This topic is something I personally have wanted the miners to address as a collective but so many are bamboozled into thinking their rights can be violated by state regulatory agencies.
Understanding the federal level laws, regs, and guidelines will help ANY MINER to present their concerns on the state levels as needed.

We will give the polls until tomorrow, Friday evening (5 pm MST) for folks to vote.

Thanks everyone!
CP

[gold_tutor]

I am making an official announcement. I'm OUTTA HERE for good!

I've been told for the very last time,
the latest being this morning,

that my posts where I take the unpopular side of an issue--the latest being the anti-mining RS2477 thread,

that I am attacking people (I'm attacking issues and wrong where I find it),
that I am agressive in my posting (I got that black eye from Dan for not liking the fact that the researcher didn't show up as promised on the very first CP conference chat and his boss did who didn't know squat except what he read)
and now by Denise, I'm told in public chat this AM that I'm "against MRT and everything it stands for"

Well, BULLLLLLLLL CHIT! This miner & gold recycler has been responding, allright, but evidently not in the politically correct. lady-like manner.

I've had enough.

Dave Kelsea gets to have Strong opinions on DEQ and Turbidity, etc., because he's a dredger and those are rights grabbing issues that no one should stand for, and no one blames Dave for being upset about. NOTICE: NO one calls him aggressive, or accuses him of attacking people, just "issues."

What's sauce for the goose, folks, is ALSO sauce for the gander. I am a GANDER!!!!!!!!

You all want to find me:
I'm at goldtutor@aol.com
and I can be reached through my publisher,
origppress@aol.com
and the website is: http://members.aol.com/origppress/welcome.htm

There is a free newsletter for all who want my opinion on various matters of interest to me regarding the world of gold, goldmining, gold recycling, and platinum recycling and catalytic converter recycling and silver recycling:

contact the publisher, CN JOHNSTON: at the above email addy and ask for
GEeZ ---the free, Gold Enthusiast eZine published monthly, at no charge for the last 2.5 years, and distributed via email only.

To say I'm disappointed is to put it mildly.
I'm glad for the friends I've made on this forum.
I'm sorry that there is a double standard here...girls are supposed to be nice and not voice anything but nice opinions. Only menfolk can voice strong opinions.

THAT DOUBLE STANDARD has been around longer than the CP forum.
I thought this place was going to be different.

IT ISN'T.

You win.

GOODBYE!!!!!!!!!!!
and that's my "final answer!"

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[Si_NM]

Megan, you have maturity issues. Be gone til you get therapy.

[luckynugget]

wow I'm speechless. And I thought this was a forum to express one's views and opinions. Hmmmm. Oh yea once a week on mondays is fine with me. Or more if preferred. That's just my opinion though. :P