MRT: upcoming action, 2 miners charged Options

[Quilomene John]

Hey all, This looks like a job for the Miners Response Team! Two local miners have been charged with HPA viloations for dredging without the proper permits and for lying to an officer. They are to be arraigned on Dec. 2, 2003 at 1:30pm at the Okonogan County (Washington) Court House. It would be great if some miners could be there for the arraignment, and it's imperative we be there for the trial! I'm sure more information will be available after the arraignment, but so far the case sounds very flimsy! Stay tuned..........QJ

[49er Mike]

Ok guys, I'm here with you. I can't make it to the arraignment and I would like to hear a little more about this case. Did they have a permit? What are the purported lies?

Mike
49er Mike

[Quilomene John]

I promised not to reveal the details that were given to me unless told that I could. I feel confident that after the arraignment the facts will be able to be released. I just don't want to jepordize their defense by talking too soon. QJ

[49er Mike]

John-

I can certainly understand that. I will say that I am only interested in fighting for those that have been wronged...not for law breakers. People that break the law are a liability to us all. I am willing to fight for the wronged; fight to change the laws; but totally against breaking the law even if I don't agree with the law. I am not into anarchy!

For MRT to work (at least for me), there has to be an assurance that just battles are fought. I am not into a fight to get a person aquitted of a transgression on a technicality, that is what lawyers are for and one of the biggest problems in our justice system today!

I am NOT implying that the guys in the case have broken any laws, its just nobody is really saying what went on.

Mike

[Redpaw]

49er Mike,
Your are right on the Mark, I will not stand behind someone who has blatantly broken the Law in an attempt to get things changed.
If someone wants the change they can unite with all of us here and together we will put the word out and together we will write congnitive letters showing how and why we want the change.



The amount of effort that will be required, in the future to further these efforts will become less and less as people come aboard to lend a hand and get involved in issues like these for all to reply too.

I have seen the details of the case, as they were sent to me and I can only state they will probably have to fight this one out to win......

It is a good thing to have many individuals from across the States that can and will report on Issues like this to get things out in the open.

Redpaw of the MRT

[Redpaw]

The above call to action is a prime example of what it is that we face as a group committed to helping out, or standing our ground.

First off, go to Yahoo maps and locate Okanogan County Washington and you will quickly realize how far away this place is. We as MRT have people up there right now who live local and have Law Enforcement background and have reviewed the subjects statements and found issues contradictory to what the reporting officer has written. This does not mean the Officer is Bad.

I have to remind you that no matter where you live and wonder "What could I do way out here"....that we will reach our full potential as a group when the resources of MRT members use their eyes and ears to take notice of their neighhbors and reach out to the rest of us.

The MRT is just getting off the ground and I can see us getting caught with our pants down on this one, from just the ability of those that will be working or live to far from the courthouse alone...( canadian border is kinda far away...)

It is not that we don't care because surely we do and will show it relentlessly as our abilities grow and resources from fellow MRT miners and the Network of Clubs GROW and are made available in one form or another be it just offering a ride for a fellow MRT to the courthouse or putting up a few bucks for the defense fund if there ever will be one?...Who knows?

It is issues like the above mentioned pending case that makes us all aware of what is going to be needed to have a group like ours. I would like to know if the Blue Ribbon Coalition, Resources Coalition, GPAA, DEF, CORVA, PLP or any other fine organization would be willing to take a quick look at this case and let us know whether these individuals are being fairly represented and whether they did break the law and deserve the impending descisions.

UHG,....so many questions, so little ways to know how to turn the proper gears....

But rest assured that we will know the truth and so will you regarding the above call, from what I hear so far they ( The Miners ) are going to win. They had the permits and they were not dredging, just fixing equipment.

Redpaw of the MRT

[CP]

The MRT is off to a good start! Lots of folks have already posted here and in other forums stating they would love to be part of the network.
As things progress there will probably be lots to do, but there will also be people everywhere to help out. ;)
Miners are a small percentage of the population, but working together we can, and will be heard.
I agree totally with the previous. Can not condone any law breaking, these indivduals who willfully ignore or outright disregard the laws are costing everyone.
On the other hand those of us who wish to comply seem to be misled or brushed aside because we haven't enough knowledge to argue for our rights in the field.
This is what we need, educating and supporting each other nationwide. :)

Sure sounds like the call above maybe another injustice in the making.
Keep us posted.

[Redpaw]

The arraignment is today, Hopefully by tonight we will have further info to post here.
not very much is being said right now, although I have heard the miner is a retired public servant and knows he was wronged.

Redpaw

[Redpaw]

Here is the Official story from the person involved, with his full permission and UN-edited.

The point comes down to the fact that we were not dredging, we were testing a new 263 compressor and our self-fabricated diver hot water system. The hose and nozzle were either disconnected or tied off to keep it off the bottom.

No one saw us dredge after 09-30-03 as we were not able to do so. Everything depends upon definition of terms. We stated we had been dredging all summer. To me that means I last dredged before 09-30-03.

I did work on the dredge while it was in the water but that was to test the hot water for 2 divers. So, I was in the water but not dredging (we couldn't stay down long enough to dredge-too cold). I had been working on a permit from April to June and then the Fish and Gold book during the regular season.

When my partner and I teamed up at the end of September with the goal to dredge all winter, I asked him about his permit (no need for me to get one
while working under his, but his was not valid at the time). He said he had a current permit to dredge after 09-30-03. I accepted that.

When we realized the permit was invalid we called in and got new ones, which are valid until July 1st. 2004. No big.

There is NO issue with the officer sitting and watching us for several hours, that is his job. We were welding the dredge frame in camp. Like watching paint dry, if that is how he wants to spend our tax dollars.

The two issues I am very concerned about are; 1) If he is creating issues to impress his superiors then his actions border on malicious prosecution. 2) If he is a lackey for the higher ups and they want to add to their talley of miners messed with then that is in direct violation of their mandate.

Either way it's BAD GOVERNMENT.

I noticed on my citation one charge said......"making a false statement to a public servent". Wait a minute, me and my partner are the public. So serve me, talk to me, lets get the issue resolved right here. I don't need to lie, as I am doing nothing wrong. I'm testing some gear.

As a former police officer I talked to people
(yes, all of them, and thats also why I don't do that kind of work anymore. My uppers didn't want me showing weakness to the public). I didn't get half an answer and then write a ticket.

So when asked if I had been dredging I said "yes, all summer".
That IMPLIES I STOPPED dredging whenever Summer ended. That (to me) was September 30, or before (actually we quit dredging a week before the end of September to build the systems we needed.).

My main problem is dealing with enforcers, agents, lackeys, idiots, reps., etc. that devour the power but don't know their jobs.

I'm glad that young man is out doing a job, I just wish he knew it a lot better.

and another reply from him, again unedited:

At the arraignment yesterday judge Edwards took quite a bit of time
to read the complaint, did not ask for a plea, assigned my partner an attorney, and scheduled a CONFERENCE between us and the prosecuter on Jan. 5, 2004.

Watching the judge's face while he read the complaint told me he
smelled a rat, and miners don't use rats, we use moss.

and one more reply, again unedited:

Thanks for all support. No help needed at this point. This will end in a political 'vapor' bubble. It will go away quietly. What will happen next is speculation.
Enforcement officer Jorg said to my partner (heresay) that if we try to fight this citation we will have many problems in the future with him. Bring it on F***Head. Guns Up.

I was just starting to have fun in Viet Nam (3/4 81's) when I got wounded and lost my only war. Fokers. So yeah, bring it on.

I'll be in the river or at my camp. And bring a good pen, AH.

More beer.

And there you have it folks, Quilomene John who lives in Washington state can address questions regarding the Fish and Wildlife Book Rules and Reg's. I am going to invite the Gentleman involved in this and see if he would like to come here personally and also help to clarify any questions you have.

Redpaw

[Quilomene John]

'49er Mike, I too would NOT sopport a miner who had willfully done wrong or broken the law. Redpaw got here first with the information and pending the developments of this court ordered meeting, I;m ready to burn a days vacation to support these guys at the courthouse.
In Washington the "Gold and Fish Book" is a booklet much like most states hunting rule booklets that sets seasons for individual creeks and rivers, and describes legal methods. This booklet when carried in the field by the miner serves as his permit. Any timing or method deviations from the book require a HPA (hydraulic project approval) a written permit from a Wash. Dept. of Wildlife biologist. Testing equipment without "evacuation, collection, and processing of aggregate from the bed" does not require a permit (Gold & Fish) or HPA.
This is the fifth instince of aggressive ill-informed prosecution of miners on the Similkameen River. In no case so far has it been a clear violation. All have been of questionable merit at best! QJ <_<

[russau]

i suspect that if these guys get enough documents,testemonys from witness and quotes from the f&w book, and let this info out to the prosecutors at the judge/prosecutor/defendabts conferance, that the prosecutor will try to drop the case or go for a dismissal because of lack of evidence. the judge should clearly see this info. the important thing is that they can without a doubt prove with witness that they were testing and not dredgeing then! also, there has been a lot of stolen equipment up there in them woods. not to imply that theirs is stolen equip. but it never hurts to check the equip. out. was this equip. confiscated? can it be inspected?times short! they need pictures of the equipment,and area to show to the judge!also a list of the witness,names,phone address. this will help sway the judge,hopefully!

[russau]

also very handy to have a copy of the 1872 mining laws with sections highlighted that pertain to what your doing. makes for fast responses. everyone should have a copy of this document with them while theyre out! i have a plastic binder that i keep all of my paper work in. i even section off areas of other states that im traveling to. when they ask for your papers, and they see that you have them in a orderly file, they most times back off!

[russau]

another idea would be to keep a file of these complaints as they unfold. start to finish. then we could have a list of these b.s. attacks that could also be used as evidence that theres a rat in the woodpile! maybe it could point out a certain repeat offender or his main office!

[Quilomene John]

Russau, There is indeed a list of miners getting "scrutinized", and coincidently, the cases all seem to be occuring on the Similkameen River. The same place the Dept. of Natural Resources announced the closure of "All State Waters" to mining the day before the DEF Rally in Oroville! Hmmmm....... QJ