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Colorado Prospector - Gem and mineral prospecting and mining forums _ Prospecting and Mining Laws, Regulations etc. _ Claim Jumpers

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Jun 19 2017, 01:58 PM

I have thwarted a claim jumper and an adverse possession. I am in possession of 6 survey plats showing the accurate location of my claim and 1 inaccurate setback line by an inexperienced surveyor and an incorrect Cadastral Survey/ meets and bounds survey from the BLM. I have been able to prove my claim jumper has rotated his claim 75' disrupting several mountain communities and 10 immediate adjoining parcels. I found what I needed buried in BLM case files that were missing listed documents/photos and also hidden in inaccurate case files. I am the 4th land owner since 2010 to have my claim locations fixed in my area. 4 other immediate land owners are next since I have completed my investigation. I am filing a lawsuit against this claim jumper. I have contacted the local authorities and I have contacted the BLM. I thought this was the BLM's fault. It was not.

What I am struggling with, is protection from the crazed claim jumper. I have also found there have been many land disputes over the mining claims in my area because of this ripple effect. The claim jumper claim is at the top of our mountain section. This has rippled into multiple mountain areas because the claim jumper altered his claim lines to encompass trespass issues on government land. The BLM, the County and the sheriffs department are not showing any accountability with this. All of us in the immediate area are filing the BLM letter to the claim jumper (ordering removal of trespass issue) and a recent survey showing the movement of many claims in our area by BLM to be inaccurate with the county planning department and with our deeds.

Who will finally arrest the claim jumper. His lawyer sent a letter wanting to settle out of court. Since I received the letter, the claim jumper has become more aggressive, destroys marked boundary lines and threatens my family continuously. Who will let the rest of our adjoining mountain communities know about this. I do have a TPO and will hopefully get a permanent one soon. My lawyer will be filing our lawsuit in July to recoup some of the damages caused by the claim jumper. I followed advise from a previous thread, took my land back, posted no trespassing signs and called the sheriff. Any of the remaining property in trespass on my land is mine now. How do I get this guy removed off the mountain. I can not believe the lack of accountability with the BLM, the County and the Division of Mine Reclamation. The Forest Service did help help me in 2011 and 2012 with survey equipment and we found every original stone corner monument for three of my parcels. No metal monuments unless they were thrown in mine shafts. We could see them. The forest service also proved all my GPS coordinates were a match to our county coordinates at the time. I have wasted a lot of time and money proving the same thing over and over again. No one wants to deal with this guy. I am afraid the claim jumper will cause serious damage with his bulldozer as he has in the past. Anyone remember Heemeyer in Granby or Kremmling?
On a good note, I have found my first gold flakes. At the rate I'm going it might be 10-20 years before I have an ounce. I am finding silver and gold in specific stones that have what I believe could be fluoride? It looks dark red and seems lucid or almost crystal like?

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Jun 19 2017, 03:48 PM



Posted by: MikeS Jun 19 2017, 05:52 PM

Well Gold Hill Miner, most of those questions are likely best answered by your lawyer. If they won't prosecute this guy then it's up to you and your lawyer to do so I would guess.

Nice flakes of gold. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif The red stones you are seeing might be garnet.

Posted by: Gene Kooper Jun 19 2017, 09:20 PM

GHM,

There is this Colorado statute with direct applicability to mining claims. It also applies to anyone defacing or destroying posts or monuments marking the boundaries of unpatented mining claims in Colorado. I imagine that your attorney has advised against confronting your unneighborly neighbor. If you are on the property when he jumps in his bulldozer, take pictures, lots and lots of pictures. I seem to recall that there is a statute that is specific to property corners, like lot pins in a residential subdivision. I'll see if I can find it.

Please note that patented mineral survey corners are defined to be, "public land survey corners". They were originally set by a U.S. [Deputy] Mineral Surveyor acting under authority of the General Land Office or BLM. The only other advise I can offer is to strictly follow your attorney's advise and/or instructions regarding the nitwit neighbor.

Good Luck GHM,
Gene Kooper, PLS

TITLE 18. CRIMINAL CODE
ARTICLE 4. OFFENSES AGAINST PROPERTY
PART 5. TRESPASS, TAMPERING, AND CRIMINAL MISCHIEF

C.R.S. 18-4-508 (2016)

18-4-508. Defacing, destroying, or removing landmarks, monuments, or accessories

(1) Any person who knowingly cuts, fells, alters, or removes any certain boundary tree knowing such is a boundary tree, monument, or other allowed landmark, to the damage of any person, or any person who intentionally defaces, removes, pulls down, injures, or destroys any location stake, side post, corner post, landmark, or monument, or any other legal land boundary monument in this state, designating or intending to designate the location, boundary, or name of any mining claim, lode, or vein of mineral, or the name of the discoverer or date of discovery thereof, commits a class 2 misdemeanor.

(2) Any person who knowingly removes or knowingly causes to be removed any public land survey monument, as defined by section 38-53-103 (18), C.R.S., or control corner, as defined in section 38-53-103 (6), C.R.S., or a restoration of any such monument or who knowingly removes or knowingly causes to be removed any bearing tree knowing such is a bearing tree or other accessory, as defined by section 38-53-103 (1), C.R.S., even if said person has title to the land on which said monument or accessory is located, commits a class 2 misdemeanor unless, prior to such removal, said person has caused a Colorado professional land surveyor to establish at least two witness corners or reference marks for each such monument or accessory removed and has filed or caused to be filed a monument record pursuant to article 53 of title 38, C.R.S.

HISTORY: Source: L. 71: R&RE, p. 431, § 1. C.R.S. 1963: § 40-4-508.L. 77: Entire section amended, p. 963, § 28, effective July 1.L. 79: Entire section amended, p. 478, § 4, effective July 1.L. 84: (2) amended, p. 1119, § 16, effective June 7.L. 94: (2) amended, p. 1507, § 37, effective July 1.

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Aug 9 2017, 02:08 PM

QUOTE (Gene Kooper @ Jun 19 2017, 10:20 PM) *
GHM,

There is this Colorado statute with direct applicability to mining claims. It also applies to anyone defacing or destroying posts or monuments marking the boundaries of unpatented mining claims in Colorado. I imagine that your attorney has advised against confronting your unneighborly neighbor. If you are on the property when he jumps in his bulldozer, take pictures, lots and lots of pictures. I seem to recall that there is a statute that is specific to property corners, like lot pins in a residential subdivision. I'll see if I can find it.

Please note that patented mineral survey corners are defined to be, "public land survey corners". They were originally set by a U.S. [Deputy] Mineral Surveyor acting under authority of the General Land Office or BLM. The only other advise I can offer is to strictly follow your attorney's advise and/or instructions regarding the nitwit neighbor.

Good Luck GHM,
Gene Kooper, PLS

TITLE 18. CRIMINAL CODE
ARTICLE 4. OFFENSES AGAINST PROPERTY
PART 5. TRESPASS, TAMPERING, AND CRIMINAL MISCHIEF

C.R.S. 18-4-508 (2016)

18-4-508. Defacing, destroying, or removing landmarks, monuments, or accessories

(1) Any person who knowingly cuts, fells, alters, or removes any certain boundary tree knowing such is a boundary tree, monument, or other allowed landmark, to the damage of any person, or any person who intentionally defaces, removes, pulls down, injures, or destroys any location stake, side post, corner post, landmark, or monument, or any other legal land boundary monument in this state, designating or intending to designate the location, boundary, or name of any mining claim, lode, or vein of mineral, or the name of the discoverer or date of discovery thereof, commits a class 2 misdemeanor.

(2) Any person who knowingly removes or knowingly causes to be removed any public land survey monument, as defined by section 38-53-103 (18), C.R.S., or control corner, as defined in section 38-53-103 (6), C.R.S., or a restoration of any such monument or who knowingly removes or knowingly causes to be removed any bearing tree knowing such is a bearing tree or other accessory, as defined by section 38-53-103 (1), C.R.S., even if said person has title to the land on which said monument or accessory is located, commits a class 2 misdemeanor unless, prior to such removal, said person has caused a Colorado professional land surveyor to establish at least two witness corners or reference marks for each such monument or accessory removed and has filed or caused to be filed a monument record pursuant to article 53 of title 38, C.R.S.

HISTORY: Source: L. 71: R&RE, p. 431, § 1. C.R.S. 1963: § 40-4-508.L. 77: Entire section amended, p. 963, § 28, effective July 1.L. 79: Entire section amended, p. 478, § 4, effective July 1.L. 84: (2) amended, p. 1119, § 16, effective June 7.L. 94: (2) amended, p. 1507, § 37, effective July 1.


Gene,
Thank you! BLM claims this is not their problem. The Sheriff says they have no authority. Who brings charges for Title 18 and Federal land Acts concerning mineral trespass on government land? They come running ASAP for weed management.

Posted by: swizz Aug 9 2017, 02:37 PM

County Sheriff is the proper authority to enforce Federal mining laws on site. As far as I know, the ONLY authority.

Posted by: Clay Diggins Aug 10 2017, 01:38 AM

If these are indeed mining claims on public lands neither the Sheriff nor the BLM have any authority at this point. If these are patented private lands the situation may be different as Gene shows in the Colorado Statutes.

Disputes between mining claimants has been a civil matter since before the 1866 and subsequent mining Acts. The 1865 Act addressed this issue solely and very simply. Here is the entire text:

QUOTE
That no possessory action between individuals in any of the courts of the United States for the recovery of any mining title, or for damages to any such title, shall be affected by the fact that the paramount title to the land on which such mines are, is in the United States, but each case shall be adjudged by the law of possession.

Simply put it may be the United States public lands but it's up to miners to settle their disputes through mitigation and if necessary the civil courts. Also the only law you can rely on for the court to settle your dispute is the law of possession.

Generally the proper civil court to bring suit will be the first court of record that has the jurisdiction to award real estate in their judgement. Each State is different so you should research which court is your proper venue before you file suit. Proof of mitigation is also generally required in these matters so you may need to establish that you have made a genuine effort to settle this matter before bringing suit.

Colorado has some of the best mining attorneys in the Country. It might be a good idea to talk to one of them to see where you stand.
If you do sue and win the Sheriff might be the right authority to enforce your judgement. First you will need to get a court order - then the Sheriff will have something he can act on.

Good luck.

Posted by: swizz Aug 10 2017, 05:54 AM

QUOTE (Clay Diggins @ Aug 10 2017, 01:38 AM) *
If these are indeed mining claims on public lands neither the Sheriff nor the BLM have any authority

I didn't catch where he stated that his claim was patent or location.
Please elaborate. How did you come to this conclusion for his claim? My location claims are on BLM managed public lands and the elected County Sheriff is the Federal mining law enforcer in my neck of the woods. You are implying that NO agency is responsible for law enforcement at "mining claims on public lands". This makes things sound a little grim for the miners, don't ya think? Should I just go ahead and shoot claimjumpers at my discretion, like in the good ol days? Nah. My County Sheriff will respond to my mining claims when called. It's not my job (nor desire) as a civilian to confront criminals and enforce laws, we elected him for this. Will he investigate, file reports, and cite for mineral trespass, theft, or vandalism? You bet. Property line disputes can be handled in court without the Sheriff's intervention as long as no criminal offenses such as theft or vandalism are witnessed and provable. Gold Hill Miner has reasonable complaints in regard to vandalism, theft, etc. in addition to property line disputes. Not sure what his evidence consists of, but I'm assuming he has evidence.
If the County Sheriff and I are wrong on this... please explain. Perhaps I misunderstood your response.

Posted by: johnnybravo300 Aug 10 2017, 08:32 AM

Every American has the right to perform a citizens arrest if they witness a crime happening. I wouldn't hesitate to hold someone at gun point until the sheriff arrives. Why depend on anyone else to protect what's yours when you have every right to take care of it then and there.
Duct tape and zip ties make great cuffs and if they are hog tied until the sheriff arrives, they won't soon forget that.
It's just an option, if you catch them in the act.....if that's your only option....don't shoot them or injure them too much but a slight beating might be in order if there's no witness imo. This is in no way legal qdvise....just miner to miner haha.

Posted by: swizz Aug 10 2017, 08:37 AM

I'm too old for that. Often criminals are also armed and I am frequently solo.... I'd end up in the duct tape and zip ties, not a good look for me. My approach is to observe and collect evidence (pics, etc), call the Sheriff, and wait until he/she arrives... hopefully while the suspects are still on site. Either way, I'd file a Sheriff's report and the Sheriff would likely increase patrol of my mining interests.

Posted by: Clay Diggins Aug 10 2017, 12:14 PM

QUOTE (swizz @ Aug 10 2017, 05:54 AM) *
My location claims are on BLM managed public lands and the elected County Sheriff is the Federal mining law enforcer in my neck of the woods. You are implying that NO agency is responsible for law enforcement at "mining claims on public lands".

I never implied anything. I simply presented the law on mining location disputes. I never wrote that the Sheriff couldn't enforce federal mining laws swizz? I'm not sure a Sheriff can go over the heads of the BLM on federal mining laws but that's a discussion for another time. This thread is specifically about claim jumping.

No federal mining law has been pointed out on this thread but https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/30/53?. That law left claim location disputes to the miners involved to settle among themselves or in a court. That court is restricted to deciding their disputes based on the law of possession only. There are federal laws on the possession of mining claims but as I'm sure the Sheriff would tell you he's not a judge and can't decide who should possess a mining claim without a court order.

Until the location dispute is settled there is no evidence that there is a mineral trespass. Mineral trespass (higrading) is a separate and distinct issue from location trespass (claim jumping). A claimant has to first clear any cloud on their title before law enforcement can act on mineral trespass. The place to clear that title dispute is in a civil court proceeding. The Sheriff's hands are tied until the possession issue is resolved.

All BLM employees in the minerals and records divisions are instructed in this. (BLM Manual 3833.74)
If the BLM employees don't get the point the IBLA is known to correct their error.

From Interior Board of Land Appeals Decision 2012-186, Robert O'Day, Decided June 13, 2013:
QUOTE
1.Mining Claims:

The Board has long held that it is inappropriate for BLM to engage in disputes over the right of possession of rival claimants at the request of one of the claimants. Such disputes are more appropriately resolved by an appropriate local judicial forum, not by BLM or this Board.

BLM has a well-established policy against responding to third party assertions that a mining claimant has failed to file documents with the local recording office. See BLM Manual 3833.74. Consistent with that policy, the Board has long held that it is inappropriate for BLM to engage in disputes over the right of possession of rival claimants at the request of one of the claimants. See, e.g. , Sandra Memmott (On Reconsideration) , 93 IBLA 113, 114-15 (1986), and cases cited. Such disputes are properly resolved by an appropriate local judicial forum, not by BLM or this Board. See, e.g., Recon Mining Co. , Inc ., 167 IBLA 103, 109 (2005). In this case, BLM’s response to appellant comes perilously close to such inappropriate engagement.

This is well established law. There are hundreds if not thousands of IBLA and civil court cases that restate the same principle. You now have the law and the implementation of that law to help you understand. Neither the Sheriff nor the BLM can settle a dispute between mining claimants about their locations.

Posted by: swizz Aug 10 2017, 12:31 PM

QUOTE (Clay Diggins @ Aug 10 2017, 12:14 PM) *
Neither the Sheriff nor the BLM can settle a dispute between mining claimants about their locations.

Yes, "about their locations".
Location disputes are one thing.... sign molestation, vandalism, and mineral theft are another, and all investigated and enforced by the Sheriff. NOT the BLM Ranger, nor any other BLM employee. BLM employees may call the Sheriff if they witness this type of behavior taking place.
You are addressing his property line dispute. You've told me everything I already knew regarding that but it is appreciated that you posted it for everyone's reference. I am addressing his criminal dispute. My impression is that Gold Hill Miner wants to know who should be enforcing laws regarding the malicious criminal activity that is taking place on his mining claim(s) which reside on BLM managed public land. I believe that he already resolved the property line ("about their locations") issue. Maybe I'm incorrect in assuming what Gold Hill Miner is asking. It is all very good information which we are providing either way. Thank you for posting your information. Perhaps Gold Hill Miner could have the courtesy to chine in and further clarify what he is requesting. That would be helpful. Neither of us are wrong with the advice thus far, we are just addressing separate enforcement situations. Comprende amigo?


QUOTE (Gold Hill Miner @ Jun 19 2017, 01:58 PM) *
What I am struggling with, is protection from the crazed claim jumper.

Sheriff is responsible for your protection and criminal behavior from the "crazed claim jumper".

Posted by: Clay Diggins Aug 10 2017, 01:47 PM

QUOTE (swizz @ Aug 10 2017, 12:31 PM) *
Yes, "about their locations".
Location disputes are one thing.... sign molestation, vandalism, and mineral theft are another, and all investigated and enforced by the Sheriff. NOT the BLM Ranger, nor any other BLM employee. BLM employees may call the Sheriff if they witness this type of behavior taking place.
You are addressing his property line dispute. You've told me everything I already knew regarding that but it is appreciated that you posted it for everyone's reference. I am addressing his criminal dispute. My impression is that Gold Hill Miner wants to know who should be enforcing laws regarding the malicious criminal activity that is taking place on his mining claim(s) which reside on BLM managed public land. I believe that he already resolved the property line ("about their locations") issue. Maybe I'm incorrect in assuming what Gold Hill Miner is asking. It is all very good information which we are providing either way. Thank you for posting your information. Perhaps Gold Hill Miner could have the courtesy to chine in and further clarify what he is requesting. That would be helpful. Neither of us are wrong with the advice thus far, we are just addressing separate enforcement situations. Comprende amigo?



Sheriff is responsible for your protection and criminal behavior from the "crazed claim jumper".


The problem is there is no crime if it's not his claim. He has to clear the cloud on his title to the minerals before he can establish there is criminal behavior. If the claim is proven not to be his in a court of law how can there be a crime against his property?

I have no reason to doubt his claim nor do I have a reason to support his claim that his location is being violated. Neither does the Sheriff. It doesn't matter what WE believe it only matters what the law of possession is in this case. That's the nature of the law of possession. Each case has to be decided on it's own merits. Only a court of law can make that determination.

You can't put the cart before the horse. It's been tried here and you see the results. No official can act until he proves his right to possession. If it's not his the Sheriff would have his derriere in a sling for acting against the wrong person. The Sheriff understands that.

Posted by: swizz Aug 10 2017, 01:52 PM

QUOTE (Gold Hill Miner @ Jun 19 2017, 01:58 PM) *
I am in possession of 6 survey plats showing the accurate location of my claim

Ok Clay, I guess we'll wait for him to go to court. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: swizz Aug 10 2017, 02:02 PM

QUOTE (Gold Hill Miner @ Jun 19 2017, 01:58 PM) *
What I am struggling with, is protection from the crazed claim jumper.

Gold Hill Miner-
Court case or not, mining claim or not.... Sheriff is the proper authority to protect you from the crazy guy. For now, you may file a restraining order on the crazy claim jumper if you choose and if applicable. You may seek and press additional charges if your boundaries are (easily) proven in court. After the courts legally interpret your boundaries correctly to the defendant, any trespass or criminal actions thereafter by him will be easier to prove. You would also use the County Sheriff if/when it comes to this.

Posted by: Clay Diggins Aug 10 2017, 02:12 PM

QUOTE (Gold Hill Miner @ Jun 19 2017, 01:58 PM) *
I am in possession of 6 survey plats showing the accurate location of my claim and 1 inaccurate setback line by an inexperienced surveyor and an incorrect Cadastral Survey/ meets and bounds survey from the BLM.

Obviously it's a complex matter with an admitted controversy.

That happens a lot with mining claims.

QUOTE (swizz @ Aug 10 2017, 01:52 PM) *
Ok Clay, I guess we'll wait for him to go to court. rolleyes.gif

Yes we will. I hope the judge finds the facts to be in his favor. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

Posted by: swizz Aug 10 2017, 02:30 PM

Who should he use to serve the court papers... or "enforce" his plea?
Oh yeah, the County Sheriff would work well for that task. He could have someone else serve I reckon, but why not.
Thank you again for your valuable input amigo. cheers.gif

Posted by: johnnybravo300 Aug 10 2017, 03:46 PM

It doesn't seem there is a property line dispute if there are official documents showing this. That's been settled long ago. It seems there is an aggressive claim jumper involved and that's another issue.

A few points to think about...

Sheriff's don't usually "catch" the trespassers, the property owners do.


Also note that in reality a restraining order won't stop a criminal. There have been many women beaten and raped and people killed under that "protection", and to me it's laughable. What happens when it doesn't work....?

Much respect to all here but I just dont see alot of options with a guy like this. It sounds like he could be a dangerous fella and you better be on point and watch your back out there.
Presenting him with a restraining order or a visit from the sheriff may just p1$$ him off enough to do something stupid.

Be safe out there!


Posted by: johnnybravo300 Aug 11 2017, 07:03 AM

I'm curious how this will turn out. Hopefully that dude isn't full blown looney but you just never know about people these days, or what they might try....that's all I was saying.
If he's already pushing the limits and trespassing like he is, he must have no respect for the law or for you.

Again, be safe out there!

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Aug 30 2017, 09:29 AM

These claim jumpers are trying to pass off their 1888 location certificate as a legal parcel description with only one out 4 intersecting claims. They have a long history of violence and trespass. I have the provenance to show they have also tampered with patented claim monuments and bearing trees.

The judge would not give me a permanent restraining order after these claim jumpers used their tractor as a weapon to bulldoze our monuments into our house from above and booby trapped our driveway by burying sharp metal under the dirt.

I am under the impression that no one can alter a patented mining claim or several. Why i would even have to go to court to defend my patented claim locations is beyond me. It blows my mind that after my surveyors have provided evidence of tampering up here, I can't get the BLM to come look at their altered monuments for 5 minutes.

I do want to point out to Gene, I was at BLM public room recently and decided I would see what was up with the patents stored in the BLM database. I had already received one of the patented claim packages for my most western claim from the national archives. The BLM handed me the pre amended version. Could this be one if the 4500 Colorado claims in the General Land Office corruption era in the late 1880's? I read about this in your course Advanced Topics In Mineral Survey Retracement and I believe you have mentioned this on this site. It would make sense in this area centered around the Switzerland Trail Railroad.

I believe you also mentioned BLM is now aware of this. Is anyone fixing the records to show the correct amendments on the patents in the BLM database?

Thank you everyone! I guess only the courts can shut down claim jumpers. Still a judge is not going to do a site visit for 5 minutes and will have us waste more time and money endlessly showing cartoons on plats.

Happy and successful diggings to all,
Gold Hill Miner

Posted by: Crusty Aug 30 2017, 10:02 AM

Claim jumpers suck gen069.gif

Posted by: Gene Kooper Aug 30 2017, 02:16 PM

GHM,

I'm going to say something, BUT do NOT take it as legal advice. Land surveyors apply the law; attorneys interpret the law. I am not aware of any unpatented lode or placer claims that you may hold in the Gold Hill area. I am aware that you do have title to two or more patented lode mining claims. When you talk to the sheriff, do not tell him that your neighbor is claim jumping. That implies that the claims are unpatented and they usually will avoid getting involved without a court order. The reasoning being that they are not adjudicators of possessory mineral rights of private parties

Tell the sheriff that your neighbor is trespassing on your private property. You do have one or more plats of your property prepared by other surveyor(s) so you can show the sheriff's deputy where your property is located and, from your prior posts the disturbances by your neighbor on your private land. It would be best to try and get them to come up when he is on your property. Without your permission, his being on your property is criminal trespass and therefore, subject to criminal sanctions. That is why I mentioned in an earlier post that you should consider documenting any trespass with photos. Assuming you have a digital camera, have the date and time stamp feature turned on to better document when the trespass(es) occur.

As for the destruction of monuments, you should have a plat prepared by your surveyor that certifies what monuments they found. If the surveyor used the monument as control for their survey they are also required to file a monument record that includes at least two accessories. The accessories can be used to reestablish the mineral survey corner should it be destroyed by your neighbor's criminal behavior. The statute that I cited in a prior post to this thread concerning the willful destruction of a survey monument is a misdemeanor and carries criminal penalties. I suggest you talk to your attorney and with his/her help file a complaint with the county or district attorney.

It sounds very fishy that the neighbor's attorney wants to negotiate an agreement; probably because they know your neighbor has screwed up, so to speak.

As for the patents at the BLM Public Room, they are on aperture cards and the cost is $1.10 per page. The GLO Records web site has scanned copies of patents issued after 1909. Before that date, you can often get a patent by looking at the Control Document Index. Not all early patents are there, but the great majority of them are. Feel free to email me with your claim names and mineral survey numbers and I'll help you look for those online.

Finally, the period of time that you note is from June 20, 1899 through Aug. 8, 1904. There was a small time buffer to get everyone notified of the changes. I can discuss more about your claims via email. Now the "patent package" that is officially referred to as the Land Entry Case File is obtained from the National Archives in Washington D.C. For mineral surveys, the mining claimant/patent applicant compiles all of the information and records for their claim (e.g. newspaper notices) that are required to be submitted before the Land Office will issue the patent. The patent applicant submits the patent application to the local land office. As you found out, that information includes a lot more than what is in the patent.

Also, if you get bored or cold up on Gold Hill this next February and desire to [literally] play roulette, I will be giving an 8-hour workshop at the Luxor in Las Vegas on February 22. My talk is on Advanced Topics in Mineral Surveys and will go into the details of that 5-year period from 1899 to 1904. The talk is part of a conference sponsored by the National Society of Professional Surveyors, the Western Federation of Professional Surveyors, the Arizona Professional Land Surveyors, the Nevada Association of Land Surveyors, and the Utah Council of Land Surveyors. It is a warm up to a talk I am planning to give in Denver in March sponsored by the BLM for Federal surveyors and Certified Federal Surveyors.

Posted by: Clay Diggins Sep 1 2017, 11:22 AM

Thanks for clearing that up Gene. Now that you have shared the private status of the land in question (not a mining claim) the puzzle becomes clear. The original post seemed to indicate a mix of mining claims and patents. Your non legal advice is good information in my opinion.

Since there is no mining claim or "claim jumping" going on my previous information doesn't apply to this situation. This appears to be a private matter involving private property neighbors. If trespassing is involved the Sheriff would be the enforcement authority and if boundary disputes are involved it will be a matter for the courts. In both cases State law would be controlling, not federal law or agencies.

Perhaps clarity on the following points may help others in the future:

When a mining claim goes to patent it is no longer a mining claim it is private property. Being private property it is no different than any other private property, the BLM and other federal land management agencies no longer have a part to play in the former mining claim, now private land, status.

"Claim jumping" is the act of attempting to challenge a prior existing (senior) mining claim based on paperwork or technicalities. The courts have long frowned upon purely legal challenges to senior mining claims that are being maintained and occupied by their owners. Claim jumping does not often involve the theft of minerals and if it does the court must first resolve the adverse claim before mineral theft can be established.

"Higrading" is the act of stealing minerals from an active mining claim. Higrading is theft of minerals and is not a direct challenge to the validity of a mining claim.

Neither claim jumping nor higrading are terms that apply to private property. Virtually all of the private land in the public land states was once public land that has gone to patent. Where you live and work is patented land. Patented land = private land. Most patented private land was never a mining claim but in the cases where it was a mining claim that went to mineral patent the land is now private and is in no way a "claim" mining or otherwise.

Posted by: Crusty Sep 1 2017, 11:46 AM

Great points! Makes things much clearer!

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Sep 1 2017, 12:21 PM

All my claims went to Mineral Patent. I do get the claims are private property.
We are in touch with the state land board and we are trying to get any government entity to handle current criminal and mineral trespass issues on adjoining government land at this point. The courts are going to have to remove the neighbor from our land.


Posted by: johnnybravo300 Sep 1 2017, 07:39 PM

High grading was a term used by the old timers mostly in regards to hard rock miners that would conceal (steal) ore to take home and sell for themselves. The higher paying mines with good working conditions didn't have as many problems with it as the others, and some estimates put high grading losses at astounding numbers...no one would know exactly.
I've never read much about it happening at placer operations where the bosses are usually present during the day and at clean up.

Sounds like it's flat out trespassing if it's private property. The sheriff is the man, yep.

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Nov 10 2017, 12:52 PM

QUOTE (johnnybravo300 @ Sep 1 2017, 07:39 PM) *
High grading was a term used by the old timers mostly in regards to hard rock miners that would conceal (steal) ore to take home and sell for themselves. The higher paying mines with good working conditions didn't have as many problems with it as the others, and some estimates put high grading losses at astounding numbers...no one would know exactly.
I've never read much about it happening at placer operations where the bosses are usually present during the day and at clean up.

Sounds like it's flat out trespassing if it's private property. The sheriff is the man, yep.


I spoke with a BLM law enforcement official in Denver.
1. He explained it is easy to alter the BLM monuments
2. I explained many of the patented mining claim shafts and tunnels are now monumented on BLM land again.
3. He was not surprised I could not get BLM up for a site visit and advised I go to the state director
4. Out of 7 claims I own all or part of, only 2 mining claim lines border private land. The BLM parcels in between and boarding my private patented land have all had their BLM monuments altered.
5. The BLM will prosecute and order a re survey for their managed land in my area once we can get them here for a site visit according to this law enforcement official.
6. For now there is no mineral leasing in this area.

Which patent law states no one can ever alter a 100 year old patented mining claim?


Posted by: CP Nov 16 2017, 02:56 PM

Hi Gold Hill Miner, glad you're making some headway on that re-establishment of your patented claim boundaries. GOOD WORK!
I'm not aware of a "patent law" that says what you asked about. However as I was explained it by our surveyor on the private survey crew I worked with.......... It is more than difficult to move or even alter any established survey markers in the field.....most especially any BLM or USGS established monuments... as a private surveyor that was the last thing he even wanted to think about was ever altering any government survey monuments. Yes it could be done but that private surveyor sure better have his ducks all in a row for reasons and records filed of such alterations!

I know the BLM law enforcement person told you this but I believe they are mistaken on that since they are trained for law enforcement and not surveying. That would be understandable why enforcement might be mistaken.
Again, I was merely a worker on the survey party and not the certified surveyor, but I was led to believe altering or moving monuments was a no no in general without proper field procedures, steps and re-recording/filing. All very old and well established laws for surveyors as some of the oldest in use.

Gene being an actual surveyor can shed more light on this sometime when gets back in the forum I"m sure.

Didn't this situation with a bordering private land holder neighboring your claims also have a residential well site involved that was of a "questionable" location with regards to the borders in question?

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Nov 16 2017, 04:17 PM

QUOTE (CP @ Nov 16 2017, 01:56 PM) *
Hi Gold Hill Miner, glad you're making some headway on that re-establishment of your patented claim boundaries. GOOD WORK!
I'm not aware of a "patent law" that says what you asked about. However as I was explained it by our surveyor on the private survey crew I worked with.......... It is more than difficult to move or even alter any established survey markers in the field.....most especially any BLM or USGS established monuments... as a private surveyor that was the last thing he even wanted to think about was ever altering any government survey monuments. Yes it could be done but that private surveyor sure better have his ducks all in a row for reasons and records filed of such alterations!

I know the BLM law enforcement person told you this but I believe they are mistaken on that since they are trained for law enforcement and not surveying. That would be understandable why enforcement might be mistaken.
Again, I was merely a worker on the survey party and not the certified surveyor, but I was led to believe altering or moving monuments was a no no in general without proper field procedures, steps and re-recording/filing. All very old and well established laws for surveyors as some of the oldest in use.

Gene being an actual surveyor can shed more light on this sometime when gets back in the forum I"m sure.

Didn't this situation with a bordering private land holder neighboring your claims also have a residential well site involved that was of a "questionable" location with regards to the borders in question?


Hi,
It is extremely easy to alter the BLM monument stakes and the old stone monuments. We are finding cement over the 100 year old carved monuments, new carvings spelling the claim names wrong, caps switched, buried and no evidence of. It is becoming quite comical since I've been documenting the movement and disappearance for a while now. (at least 99% of my land boarders BLM parcels) I can't seem to get them up here, but a judge will and soon I hope. i have 4 plats by one of the surveyors that helped me and for some reason, monuments that were discovered on plat 2, disappeared on plat 3 & 4. HMM. Another surveyors exhibit plat doesn't agree with the first 4.
The well among other things were in trespass on government land that the government sold to me. The water resource board transferred the ownership to me. The trespassers could have asked me for help instead of tampering with monuments to hide more of their trespass issues on government land.
I can certainly prove someone has added dirt on to one of my mine shafts and altered monuments around the mountain since 2010. They seem to move and change locations quite frequently.

Posted by: CP Nov 16 2017, 05:03 PM

Nice work on that as well. You've gotten quite a lot accomplished on this ordeal! thumbsupsmileyanim.gif You're correct that seems comical at that point wow! Hope the BLM pays the site a visit to straighten it all out soon too.

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Feb 25 2018, 02:27 PM

QUOTE (CP @ Nov 16 2017, 04:03 PM) *
Nice work on that as well. You've gotten quite a lot accomplished on this ordeal! thumbsupsmileyanim.gif You're correct that seems comical at that point wow! Hope the BLM pays the site a visit to straighten it all out soon too.

A temporary injunction has come in to force me off my patented land that holds my 120' driveway ( now down to 20'), my patented mine shaft and vehicle access to my 6 other patented claims. I guess the Boulder County Court does not know the law or does not want to abide. They seem to think a 20' deep patented forever mine shaft has absolutely no relevance. Even a wide open one.
This is called paperwork terrorism in an FBI article I stumbled on about Alludial Title. I am dealing with professional land thieves.
I still can't get the law up here to look at the government parcels and monument alterations. I don't want to have to go through three quiet title actions. My neighbors promised to tie us up in court forever.

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Mar 2 2018, 10:52 PM

QUOTE (swizz @ Aug 10 2017, 01:02 PM) *
Gold Hill Miner-
Court case or not, mining claim or not.... Sheriff is the proper authority to protect you from the crazy guy. For now, you may file a restraining order on the crazy claim jumper if you choose and if applicable. You may seek and press additional charges if your boundaries are (easily) proven in court. After the courts legally interpret your boundaries correctly to the defendant, any trespass or criminal actions thereafter by him will be easier to prove. You would also use the County Sheriff if/when it comes to this.

My surveyors, the BLM law enforcement and the county are all refusing to come and look at the obliterated monuments that connect my patented mining claims to BLM land and the judge is allowing this adverse possession.

Is there an honest surveyor in this state that will come do a quick LIC on my land and document these obliterated monuments? It would only take an hour. I have contacted the BLM, FBI, CBI and the Forest Service. 12- 14 mineral surveys have been altered all surrounded by gov. land.

The sheriff says its a civil matter go to court. The county and Blm do nothing. My surveyor just lied about not seeing new uprooted monuments from under bearing trees as described in the BLM cadastral survey manual last week. I have him on film touching the monuments still attached to the tree roots. Then with in 24 hours of that visit I found other monuments covered with fresh dirt.


Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Mar 2 2018, 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Gold Hill Miner @ Mar 2 2018, 09:52 PM) *
My surveyors, the BLM law enforcement and the county are all refusing to come and look at the obliterated monuments that connect my patented mining claims to BLM land and the judge is allowing this adverse possession.

Is there an honest surveyor in this state that will come do a quick LIC on my land and document these obliterated monuments? It would only take an hour. I have contacted the BLM, FBI, CBI and the Forest Service. 12- 14 mineral surveys have been altered all surrounded by gov. land.

The sheriff says its a civil matter go to court. The county and Blm do nothing. My surveyor just lied about not seeing new uprooted monuments from under bearing trees as described in the BLM cadastral survey manual last week. I have him on film touching the monuments still attached to the tree roots. Then with in 24 hours of that visit I found other monuments covered with fresh dirt.

My building lot is only 2 acres. I'll worry about the rest of mine and the neighbors. I need to stop this adverse possession now. It is an emergency. I have before and after photos of all the monuments.

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner Apr 17 2018, 11:44 AM

I believe a Boulder judge just changed the mining laws. Patented mining claims/mineral surveys have no relevance in Boulder County. Any neighborhood terrorist can alter and obliterate patented land property corner monuments and BLM parcel monuments as well. Even when you have them on film doing it, the law will not protect you. They say it is a civil matter, Boulder calls it quiet title, the FBI calls it paperwork terrorism and the rest of us call it racketeering and adverse possession.

Our civil rights are being violated along with our mineral and water rights. Our surveys disappeared out of the courthouse. There is no discussion of adverse possession laws concerning the 35 years of the taxes I paid and one surveyor says its ok to relocate a patented mine shaft on to another mineral survey.

Our wide open patented discovery shafts have no relevance and are secondary to obliterated monuments that our terrorist neighbors, on film, have bulldozed and obliterated.

We have caught three Boulder County survey companies altering BLM monuments, installing monuments, not mapping them, recording them in wrong counties and and refusing to review any of their documented obliterated BLM monuments.

Posted by: Clay Diggins May 10 2018, 10:53 AM

The Court and the County are correct. It is a civil matter. Trying to involve the BLM, FBI, CBI, Forest Service, the Cadastral Survey or the United States in your cause is like trying to go to a German government official to get a Colorado State driving license. Neither will have the desired result and both are a waste of everyone's time.

It matters not that your private property was acquired through a patent. Virtually all of the private lands outside the original 13 colonies were acquired through patent. More than 6 million patents. It doesn't matter how lands became private property, the law treats those private properties the same. Put the whole idea of patents out of the issue and you will have a clearer view of your possible courses of action.

Quiet title might be the proper form of civil action to confirm your rights in your property. I'm not your lawyer and I don't know enough about your situation to have an opinion about that. Either way your cause is indeed a civil property action.

I'm curious, did you acquire the patent by assignment or succession?

Good luck on your cause. I do know how disturbing your situation can be. Hang in there and get clear about your possible courses of action and you may very well prevail.

Posted by: Gold Hill Miner May 10 2018, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (Clay Diggins @ May 10 2018, 11:53 AM) *
The Court and the County are correct. It is a civil matter. Trying to involve the BLM, FBI, CBI, Forest Service, the Cadastral Survey or the United States in your cause is like trying to go to a German government official to get a Colorado State driving license. Neither will have the desired result and both are a waste of everyone's time.

It matters not that your private property was acquired through a patent. Virtually all of the private lands outside the original 13 colonies were acquired through patent. More than 6 million patents. It doesn't matter how lands became private property, the law treats those private properties the same. Put the whole idea of patents out of the issue and you will have a clearer view of your possible courses of action.

Quiet title might be the proper form of civil action to confirm your rights in your property. I'm not your lawyer and I don't know enough about your situation to have an opinion about that. Either way your cause is indeed a civil property action.

I'm curious, did you acquire the patent by assignment or succession?

Good luck on your cause. I do know how disturbing your situation can be. Hang in there and get clear about your possible courses of action and you may very well prevail.


1. Boulder county has had our correct survey since 1968. I have 4 more from neighbors adjoining my land.


2. An incorrect setback and elevation plat on "PART OF A MINERAL SURVEY LINE" for a septic rebuild after the Fourmile Fire does not constitute a property survey, boundary survey, or a compete mineral survey of a mining claim with wide open discovery shafts.

3. Boulder county has allowed our neighbors to have this incorrect survey as their boundary and property survey as public record. Refusing to acknowledge all the evidence I have showing the neighbors have altered an entire 2003 BLM survey. The BLM in Lakewood does not manage this area and has been extremely helpful to me since the Royal Gorge BLM that manages this area has been complicit. The BLM owns all the pockets of land between the mineral surveys. BLM swears they did not alter any mineral surveys and I have proof showing who did.

4. We found that other neighbors are also obliterating BLM and private land corners, while leasing their minerals to the local mining companies as well.

5. Mining claims and boundaries in dispute are showing up on line with SEC filing Numbers.

6. A judge just quieted my title based on another incomplete survey from neighbors. 3 lines instead of 4, noted damaged corner monument that the surveyor says he did not recall. I was never able to show my surveys or evidence.

7. Colorado Mine Safety and Reclamation has been in agreement with me since 2012, that the BLM monuments have been altered and have to go by the mine features. I have it in writing from emails. They helped me with 5 shafts on adjoining claims that connect to the N. Plat water system.

8. The Forest Service was in agreement in 2012 that someone had altered the BLM monuments, brought out equipment and uncovered all of our monuments, when they saw we were having trouble with our surveyor. I have it writing from emails. We have the neighbors on film altering and hiding the monuments.

9. Boulder County planning department, the BLM and the sheriffs department has allowed our neighbors to terrorize my family for a long time. I have lived on these mining claims to also prospect my tailing piles since 1985. We should have never had to go through this. I am not the only one.

10. This is what the FBI calls white collar crime and paperwork terrorism in an Allodial Title tip line article.

11. I have been moved 100' off the road we crossed, on to other neighbors land, BLM land and off the top of a mountain, loosing over an acre of our land of 35 years. Also our 20' deep mine shaft now belongs to the neighbor. They call it a trench I dug, when it is a properly platted mine shaft that mine safety helped me open with a bulldozer for litigation. After I carefully uncovered as much of it I could for month by hand.

12. No one including my former lawyer would acknowledge my water rights, mineral rights or the taxes I have paid for 35 years. This is not a civil matter it is criminal with terrorism!

13. We were told our surveyor was held at gunpoint out here by someone. He said it happened somewhere else. His co workers claimed he would never come out here again. I later begged him to come out, he lied about what he saw after his visit and we have him on film as well. He also showed up without his survey equipment. Then other surveyors pointed out monuments that were illegally installed and not mapped according to regulations. That first company also filed most of our state recorded monuments in a different township. Some were stolen out of Boulder County records and all said "survey still in progress and unfinished." Some monuments on another incorrect plat said found, when they were installed by that first surveyor. Some disappeared on later exhibits, then showed up in new locations on the ground.

14. On 2/12/18 I received an email from the BLM saying any surveyor could fix my monuments if someone had altered them, finally. I was slapped with a temp. injunction to stay off my land with in days of that email, allow my neighbors full use of over an acre of my only flat land and I would be in contempt of court if I fixed anything. That order has been made permanent.

The Forest Service gave me a fuel reduction grant to clear escape routes around several of my mining claims after the Fourmile Fire. We knew there would be flooding eventually. We spent 35 years keeping the old mining roads clear.
The BLM still owns the land surrounding these claims and their parcels and monuments are also disappearing. In Lakewood the BLM also gave me all the neighbors trespass case files, every mining claim plat and the head of Cadastral Survey met with me and has been in constant communication with me. They also gave me the link to the cadastral survey manual among other things.
The FBI and CBI have articles and tip lines for this stuff. This is white collar crime when mineral leasing is involved.

The BLM sold me a third of an acre that the neighbors trespassed on for over 40 years, it had an abandoned well that the neighbor had hooked up to. It is a piece of patented land with a patent #.They yelled at me for buying the land two weeks after the fire. I had not finished paying for it yet. I told the neighbors we would work everything out as soon as my surveyors could fix the mess. As soon as I hired the surveyors, the neighbors started blocking our access, bulldozed our property and threatened us among other things. This has been extremely violent and the courts will not give my family restraining orders against the neighbors and I believe the county and BLM are allowing this.

The attached photo has a blue outline of our building lot of 35 years. The pink triangle is where the BLM appraisers and the neighbors dictated the location of the new 1/3 of an acre I purchased. Now the neighbor has been able to relocate my entire building lot down to the east side of the pink triangle.


 

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