All right, since I was the little kid on the block on Labor Day, I had to up my game!
Say hello to my new (to me) little friend!
Nice Crusty! My friend bought a new XDm .40 and he loves it. I went with a Glock 23. I bought it new and have put about 300 rounds through it. Here she is complete with pocket clay on the handle.
Love my Kimber Ultra Carry II in stainless. And, Crusty, I love to shoot 1911 type .45's!
Good choice on the gun Crusty. I own a XD-45 tactical with a M3 Tactical Illuminator. Let me know if you find a holster for yours that can accommodate the light. I can't find one.
About your light, 680 lumens?! On a handgun?! Have you turned it on in the middle of the night in your house after you've been asleep for a while? My light puts out ~90 lumens and I think it's extremely bright when I've turned it on while checking out a noise. It seems to me that you may be just as blinded as whatever it is that you shine it on. I've used a Surefire flashlight at work and the reflections from a 320 lumen light were disruptive even in a well lit lab.
Funny story here. Right after I bought it, I took it out to Dragon Man's range to get familiar with it. Since it was a weekend there was a range master out there. He came over where my friend and I were shooting at our targets and we started chatting. He had a nice Kimber (aka a .45 that costs over $1000) and he took a few shots at our target to show his grouping with it. I asked him if he wanted to shoot the XD and he was happy to do so. He then shoots a tighter group with the XD. We could tell right then and there that he pondered the value of spending twice as much for the Kimber. Not that I have anything against Kimber's.
I picked up a G21 in .45ACP and a G19 in 9mm a few weeks ago, not terribly impressed with the stock sights but other than that I'm happy.
Rockyrat, please tell me you're not a regular customer at Dragonman's, those are some of the rudest people I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. They stole all of my brass while I was checking my target, then tried to claim that all brass belongs to them if it hits the ground. When I pointed out the sign that says you're not allowed to pick up any brass besides your own they tried to tell me it didn't come out of my weapon! Between that and several other incidents that happened with friends (Up to and including their "range safety" allowing someone to shoot when my buddy was DOWNRANGE PUTTING UP A TARGET!) I'll never go there again.
I'm not a regular customer at Dragon Man's. I've never had any bad experiences out there when I've gone to use the range. I will say though that I haven't been out there for several years. Previously I've only ever seen a range master on weekends. During the week it was up to the people shooting there to manage the flag and target change times. Everyone was always well behaved.
I can't imagine how a range master would let anyone fire a weapon when someone is downrange. In fact when I was there he would actually make everyone stand back away from their weapons and all bolts/slides had to be open, magazines removed, and the guns placed on the tables. It was always very well managed. The guy I met was VERY strict about range safety. It sounds like he's no longer there.
I always picked up my own brass with no issues. Had they taken mine then I too would never go back.
Haven't played with the night in the dark yet, but it is damn bright! And has the disorienting strobe feature too... will have to play with it and see what I think.
There is a local place that posts on the Facebook Colorado Gun Trader group that makes custom Kydex hoslters; he'll take your rig and custom make a holster for it; I think they're only $35? Might have to check it out... though I think I'd just leave the light on in the house; don't think I'd carry with it on.
So, I did do a little reading and it seems .45 isn't ideal for a bear/elk/moose/sasquatch round, that .357 or .41/.44 or maybe .40 if your in a semi-auto. Thoughts on a good round that would make my .45 useful or should I still look for a .357 or .41/.44 wheel gun to pack in the field?
.45+P, possibly. I don't really know - I can't use them in either of mine - will the XD handle it?
I would go with the ball ammo for out in the field - they are available in the +P also... I just cannot use +P ammo in my firearms. I'm not worried about bears or much else out in the field - just the 2 legged varments, and not even that, really. Noise is really what you need, and a .45 provides plenty of that. As far as home defense, Hornedy Critical Defence XTP's just cannot be beat.
Most modern handguns are capable of shooting +P ammo, with the potential for degraded service life due to higher chamber pressure and increased barrel wear. That being said, you're looking at a reduction from say 10,000 rounds to 8-9,000 rounds before a new barrel is required so you probably won't ever actually reach that limit.
Now, with 185 grain +P's you've got a light round moving really fast, could it take down a bear? Sure, there's even documented cases of .22LR taking down a bear. Will it do it reliably? Nope. Will 230 grain ball take a bear reliably? Nope. Same for .357, .44, even the .454. It's all about shot placement. We're talking about several hundred pounds of fur coming at you at up to 30mph, where the best kill zones are hidden. A bear's skull is very tough, I'd trust a magnum round to get through more than a short any day of the week. That being said, with a .45 I would put as many rounds on target as I could before it got to me, hoping that one of them was enough to make it turn around.
My usual woods carry is a snub nosed .44mag filled with 300 grain solid lead loads. It is quick to draw, quick to get on target with, and recoil is not too much more than my .45. It's also accurate enough to put all six rounds in a quarter at 35 yards, granted that is under controlled conditions at a range. The .454 Casull revolver I had at the claims is about same, however with that long barrel it would be slower to draw, but much more accurate with more stopping power.
Old guy I used to know back in PA used to carry a .44 with the first round being a shot shell. His thinking was the sudden sting of a bunch of fine shot in the face might scare a critter off more than a single round. Not sure how effective that would be in the heat of the moment, but at least it'd be quicker with a follow up shot than something like bear spray where you lose time dropping the can and drawing your sidearm.
Oh, and please cite your reference that claims a .40 small and weak would be a good bear round. That's for people who aren't man enough to shoot a real 10mm. (yeah, I make fun of all of the baby calibers, .380/9mm, .40/10mm, .45GAP/.45ACP, .38/.357, .44/.44mag)
I did get a handful of the Hornaday Critical Defense with the gun and also a handful of Remington Golden Saber Ammunition 45 ACP 230 Grain Brass Jacketed Hollow and I bought a box of Remington Golden Saber Ammunition 45 ACP +P 185 Grain Brass Jacketed Hollows, so I can pop some off and decide what I'd like to carry in it.
From all the reading I've done, a 45 against a bear is a risky compromise if they're coming at you. Even with something like one of the Buffalo Bore rounds. While I'd hope while it might not kill it, the few "punches" to the skull I'd hope to give it would at least dissuade it from continuing to come at me... but hope isn't a good strategy! lol
I'll just keep an eye out for a deal I can't pass up on a .357 to .44 wheel gun... as often as stuff gets posted on the Facebook groups, something will come up before next season.
Guys, the bear spray I use is fully documented to stop most charges. There is actually video of it being used to stop an angry, territorial grizzly ba a fisherman in Canada. Stopped it short, and had it rubbing its eyes and whining! A .44 mag punching through the skull on a direct brain shot (all but impossible to do!) is the only thing that would have stopped it quicker. You can actually see the fisherman crapping himself as he sprayed the bear... it wasn't set up, just one of those lucky coincidences when somebody was videoing their friend fishing.... I bought 2 when I went hiking in Glacier NP. These are quick to use, easy to get on target, and is no sh** sherlock effective. Works on black bears too, which is what it was developed for. Range is great, and a very good, effective, long cone pattern. You just have to hit the face, something most people can do w/o thinking due to hand/eye coordination. The guy in the video just swep across the face of the bear, it stopped, and then he really zeroed in and doused it good (at about 6 to ten feet!) Then the guy just stood there untill his friends grappeb him and ushered him away... he looked like he was having a heart attack, though... The bear just sat there on its butt in the water, rubbing its face and sounded just pitiful... sold me. I'd rather use this stuff than a firearm. What they will not tell you is that handguns, while they will kill the bear (eventually), they will not stop the charge, unless you score a perfect hit. A.30-.30 or a 12 guage (with slugs) will. Unless you are willing to carry a .50 with a 4" barrell (very heavy and slow to draw monster handgun), you just don't have the stopping power. Most instances of bear charges are false charges, and the very loud report is what actually drive them off, not the hit - and most poeple can't actually fire acuratelly on a charging bear - they miss by several feet, usually above and behind, and since most bear charges start from 30' or less, you will not get to fire more than once, if at all, and that's if you already have the firearm in hand! The guy in the video was lucky - he saw the bear before it started its charge and had the spray ready when it did - and the water slowed it down. He actually missed the bear when he started spraying, and was able to sweep the spray across it's face - but it had actually closed to the 6-10 feet stated above before it was stopped. If he had been using a handgun, he would have been done before the second shot. Just my 2 cents....
Good discussion. Are the chances of any of this happening great, no (except for Brandon and the bigfoot costume). If it does, chances are it ain't gonna work out well. I'm more likely to have a sidearm on my hip than a can of bear spray, given the chances of something other than a bear being the issue are more likely. So this really is a discussion about slim possibilities... slim chance I'm going to get charged by a bear, slim chance I'm going to be able to react in time, and if I do, slim chance I'm gonna dissuade him from turning my in to a steaming pile of bear doo doo in the woods somewhere. But I'd like to think I'd at least get a shot or two off and hope it is good enough or that while he's got me bent over doing his bear business to me, maybe I can get one last shot in and survive only missing a limb or two lol
I carry Glock Model 23, .40 cal but don't have any high expectations of stopping big game with it. More for immediate threats of a smaller nature, scaring off big game from the sound,... or to defend myself from humans. By "threats of a smaller nature" I'm referring to possible odd incidents that might involve smaller animals that are rabid or may need to be put out of their misery from injuries.
I believe that once you are in your tent and sleeping gear.... you are completely vulnerable, weapon or not. A large animal will not enter the tent through the door. It will collapse the tent upon you in a fury... rendering you a burrito. You will not be able to reach for anything as it occurs in a matter of seconds and the victim is normally asleep at the point of attack. Attacks on tents are rare but that's typically how it goes down.
I have read in various articles......
Bear Spray: Effective primarily on Grizz, not so much for Black Bear but can work
Air Horn: Better than spray for Black Bear
Chris, I totally agree!
Grizzlies are territorial, and make lots of bluff charges.... probably due to their size, the energy expended in a fight, and the amount of damage they can do to each other. This is why pepper spray works so well on them. Black bears are an entirely different story - when they are really charging you, they mean to kill you. NO MATTER WHAT. Whether it is to eat you, because you got between mama bear and her cub, between it and its kill, or just because you pissed it off somehow. Handgun rounds, magnum or no, just will not stop them - unless you score a very hard disabling shot right off the bat, (that slows it down... a little) then follow it up with another or three hard hits... and that's on their bluffs - on a real charge, well, you just have to get lucky. They have been known to continue the charge and maul, even after multiple, very hard hits. However, bear spray will slow them down considerably - if you get the eyes, nose, and mouth when they are far enough away (they have great follow through and will hit you even when blinded, unless you think to move laterally, which most people will not). So, sorry... the pepper spray gives you more of an edge than a handgun will, particulary since you can see the spray stream and bring it on target. So, Brandon, I WILL wear that mullet, and proudly, too, brah. Not trying to call you out - just being real.
Short barreled !2 guages loaded with magnum powered slugs are the recommended and preferred way to go in bear country. In Canada, for campers, hikers and fishermen - your only option is bear spray, no mullet required.
I'm gonna try to get an 870 Express Tactical by spring (12 ga). I'd feel better with that slinged to my back when I'm up at the claims alone.
That Bear in my avatar was staring, calculating, and making decisions as I took that pic... you can see it in his face. I didn't even have my handgun that day, he scared off easy enough just yelling at him. Had he made other decisions I'd have been wishing for a 12 ga.
Aw, Swizz - he was just looking for a little buddy!
We would have made great pals!
The bears love the raspberries more than I do.
Seriously - a 12g with an 18" barrel and a pistol grip is a great thing for a miner in bear country - IF you can get it deployed.... which most of the time, you can. When a black bear gets interested in you, it normally makes its presence known, somehow, so you do get the oppertunity to get your weapon in hand - most of the time, it's just curious. It's those other times - especially when they start working their way closer.... and a first shot into the ground can usually dissuade them.
They really don't like loud noises - a canned air horn can actually be your best friend. Works well on hill kitties, too!
I don't want the pistol grip, full stock for me on that one.
There is a tactical version that has a sliding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip really steadies the weapon and makes it really easy to fast-cycle the action. You'd really be able to fire shots only a quarter tic slower than a semi-auto, and stay on target to boot!
Cool beans. Where I am bear isn't the problem. Mountain lions and bobcats are.
Thanks!
latest random find I'm considering
Taurus 4" .44 mag
Good write-up on it here. Seems like the 4" is a good balance of not bring too big to carry/draw but keeping the rounds on target. http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/taurus-m44-44-magnum/
He's selling it for $480 with 50 rounds of ammo. Looks like they sell for around $650-ish new, but then it'd add tax, so it seems like a fair deal. Thoughts?
I'm not a revolver guy.... but that is one bad mother. Also, really good deal!
I am very happy to see Colorado women learning to use firearms and carry them to protect themselves.
The numbers from around the State are impressive, even in Boulder County.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/21/Female-Concealed-Carry-Up-793-Percent-In-Colorado
In my opinion this is not necessarily good news. I have had my concealed handgun permit for over 5 years now and I remember very clearly that when I took the "class" that is required that I came to the conclusion that at least half of those people (men and women) really shouldn't have been allowed to get their permit.
I say that because the instructor asked the class how many people have never shot a gun before and more than half of the class raised their hands. I'm not exaggerating. In fact the instructor passed around one of those blue rubber pistol replicas around and some of those people were afraid to handle it. The guy sitting next to me was one of those people. He admitted that he had never even handled a gun before and there he was in this class about to be allowed to apply for the permit. It was unnerving.
Now I'm not saying that just because you've never shot a gun that it should disqualify you from obtaining a concealed handgun permit. I think that if you have never fired a gun that you should probably go learn how to safely operate one before you think that you're "certified" to carry one.
In Colorado (and a lot of states) it's more difficult to get a drivers license than it is to get a concealed handgun permit. There's no written test, no "drivers" test, and in fact you don't even have to know how to use it. Scary.
Thank god that there hasn't been an incident when one of these people mistakenly shot someone. At least I haven't heard of one.
Obviously there's many different opinions on this topic, and this is mine.
Now let's see just how many people will get upset with this idea. I think that concealed handgun permits should require the same qualifications and be a nationwide permit (aka no more reciprocity). Pass the background check, show that you know how to safely handle your weapon through demonstration at a firing range, and pass a written test that shows you know when and where it is appropriate to carry and use the weapon if necessary. A concealed handgun has a singular purpose. The privilege to carry a concealed weapon should be taken very seriously.
No argument from me! Thankfully I suspect most of those people are taking the class for the novelty and very few will follow through with actually getting their permit and few of those will actually carry.
On a separate note, there's a guy in Pueblo looking to unload this little hand cannon. The S&W 329 Alaska Backpacker. Only 29.5 ounces (scandium frame/steel cylinder). http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766211_-1_757958_757780_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
Can be a bitch to shoot the heavy loads out of (especially with those wood grips, which would be the first thing to go), but can't beat the weight. He's dropped the price $200 over the last couple month, so with the 100 rounds of ammo, the price is pretty reasonable, and if I got it and didn't like it, I could sell it for what I paid for it. Just can't decide if I want to spend $250 more for something that is 28.5 oz over something that is 48 oz.
Sure does make finding something to take in the woods with me more compelling!
http://www.koaa.com/news/hiker-photographed-bear-before-it-killed-him/
He sold it, so it's no longer in play... might get the 4" in the spring, when I can ride my bike over to Gunnison where the guy is at. Or something else will turn up.
I know I wouldn't carry a long barrel; too bulky and too heavy. So right or wrong, something that I know will be on my hip when I need it is what I'll get. Might take a perfect shot to take a bear down, but I've got a better chance of making a perfect shot with something smaller versus nothing at all.
I did just pick this up yesterday, for when I've got a little more time to get serious lol
Nice!
Is that a Magpul with 18" barrel?
Exactly what a want to wear on my back at the mine.
I like it!
So while out Rock Hounding this Summer,
A friend, his Son and Myself was working some Amazonite in El Paso County one day this Summer. We had been there in the same spot for around 5 hours that day. My phone battery died and I was expecting an important phone call so I told the others I had to be headed back now. I put on my pack and started up the hill when his son said, "Wait, Wait! There is a Bear right there". Sure enough only about twenty yards away was this bear looking right at us. He was actually standing right where I needed to go. We all just looked at each other for about a minute and then he started walking right up the very trail I had to go. Well I had no choice, I really had to get back into phone recieption so I started walking in back of the bear and we started making our way up the hill. This did not last very long and the bear turned around and started walking back towards me. Of course I stopped and he did likewise. He studied my for a while longer before making his way off to the side. This time I gave him a little more time before continuing up the hill but never saw him again. You might be able to tell in this picture but the bear had a "Skunk" like stripe down the middle of it's back. must of been an older one, kind of a Silver-Back. We have seen 6 bear in that area over the past 3 years. Almost all of them have different color phases.
Sometimes I carry a gun and sometimes I don't. Never had a real need for one, "dispite other human encouters" Nobody had a gun on this day and I never felt I needed it but I sometimes go camping alone in these same hills or spend all day long from dusk till dawn working the ground.
For me open carry is the way to go. I think we should exercise our right to carry more. I feel if we don't use it we will loose it. Woody
Very interesting story Woody, and you are a Bear magnet. I would have definitely preferred to be carrying in that circumstance, just in case.
A S&W 6" .44 popped up for $650 on one of the gun pages. I was thinking 6" (at more than 3 pounds) was a bit big to carry comfortably while working in the field, but I did find this video showing the effectiveness of different barrel lengths. The difference 2" makes might convince me otherwise. Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcQyZ6ac_H0
There are a variety of holsters that would enable you to carry this comfortably, most of them are the "shoulder" type.
The price on the S&W 6.5" above dropped to $600, which seems like a pretty fair price, so I sent the guy a message. Waiting to hear back from him.
I've worn shoulder holsters over the course of my career. Not bad for keeping a Beretta 9mm out of the way, but that is definitely a much more compact package than this beast. Looks like chest holsters are a popular outdoors rig, but I'd be concerned about keeping it dry when I eventually got a highbanker... especially after watching Scratch & Brandon in action Seems like something this big would be pretty unwieldy to wear on your hip while working. Anyone used something that works for them?
Chris,
Here is an alternative to packing a big ol' shotgun on your back! 30 rounds of 5.56 headed down range as fast as you can full the trigger will be just as effective as 7 slugs! lol
http://www.extarguns.com/
review is pretty decent on them
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/02/17/extar-exp-556-ar15-pistol-review/
Daayyyum...... a .223 'handgun'? About the same price as a Glock too. That's definitely food for thought! Would be a heck of a fun gun to plink with.
Bunch of youtube reviews of them and everyone on them says they're a hoot!
They are currently out of stock; trying to find out when they'll be pushing another run. Might pick one up!
All right, now I DEFINITELY want to get one! I'm amazed at how little the barrel comes off target with this little bitty thing firing 5.56!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8zduXJ5OQ
Now I just gotta find someone who will ship me that 100 round drum "repair kit" to CO!
They just became available again! Pinged the company to find out how they handle the CO mag restrictions, as it ships with a 30 round mag. Asked if they have a suitable sub "mag repair kit" they can ship with it.
Another reason to look forward to next season in the woods... some fun plinking time!!
additional great review of them
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/02/17/extar-exp-556-ar15-pistol-review/
OMG! I can't wait to shoot that thing! That is awesome Crusty.
I'll buy a box of .223! Ammo has come way down in price lately
Curious to know what they said about the repair kit? Been eyeballing that thing for a while. Really hoping to get out and do some crystal digging this spring, as lately its just been gold. Bought a popup so maybe we can get out more often with a little one
quote name='Crusty' date='Jan 30 2015, 03:38 PM' post='36889']
They just became available again! Pinged the company to find out how they handle the CO mag restrictions, as it ships with a 30 round mag. Asked if they have a suitable sub "mag repair kit" they can ship with it.
Another reason to look forward to next season in the woods... some fun plinking time!!
additional great review of them
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/02/17/extar-exp-556-ar15-pistol-review/
[/quote]
Stop talking about "repair kits." You are openly discussing committing a crime in a public forum. Yes, I'm serious.
They pull the mag, so basically you lose $15-20 by living in CO.
Really want one, but then I think $500 would go a long way towards the highbanker I want to get. I know they sell out pretty quick, so I need to decide soon or wait for the next run lol
Dang.... ya, I'd probably lean toward mining equip given the choice.
Not trying to piss anyone off. But frankly i could use a repair kit for some old ones so i was wondering. Did they say they would replace with a 10 round? Or so you just not get a mag?
Debated too long, this run is sold out again... back on the waiting list lol
The Zombie Apocalypse isn't for another couple years or so, you're still good.
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