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Recent BLM Mailing to Claimants
swizz
post May 11 2011, 09:09 AM
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I noticed a fat envelope in my mailbox from the BLM/DOI. I immediately thought "oh boy... what now??" I figured it couldn't be too serious since it was not sent Certified Mail.
To my surprise, the the first thing I saw when I opened it was "Thank You...".
Basically a copy of my Mining Claim Filing, the new Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification (Form 3830-2), and Affidavit of Annual Assessment Work (Draft Form) - "not officially approved... but preferred" ???????

Thought I'd run these forms by the pros to see if anything significant has changed or if there's anything fishy, don't want to get unwittingly suckered into anything - "not officially approved... but preferred" kinda raises a small red flag for me. Here are some pics of the mailing. I blotched out my personal and specific claim info. Any other claim owners get this yet? Perhaps just me, since I filed this claim in 2010 and it's standard op procedure?
Thanks.









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ASTROBLEME
post May 13 2011, 06:57 AM
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swizz,

I haven't seen this as I have too many claims to qualify for the small miner exemption. BLM and I just trade Certified Mail...keeps the post office busy!

What caught my attention was the reference to 30 U. S. C. 28-1 so I thought I'd pass along this synopsis of it;

The term "labor", as used in the third sentence of section 28 of
this title, shall include, without being limited to, geological,
geochemical and geophysical surveys conducted by qualified experts
and verified by a detailed report filed in the county office in
which the claim is located which sets forth fully (a) the location
of the work performed in relation to the point of discovery and
boundaries of the claim, (b) the nature, extent, and cost thereof,
( c ) the basic findings therefrom, and (d) the name, address, and
professional background of the person or persons conducting the
work. Such surveys, however, may not be applied as labor for more
than two consecutive years or for more than a total of five years
on any one mining claim, and each such survey shall be
nonrepetitive of any previous survey on the same claim.


I would NEVER record results from my labor with the county recorder. That information is proprietary in nature and is not for public distribution. Whatever you record with the county or the Department of Interior is public record and can be easily accessible to anyone for any reason. Competitors or folks looking for a free ride benefit but you only get to waive the maintenance fee. When I'm contracting for $100 per hour for diamond consultants, I don't think the government has any claim on the results! I'm not willing to give up my right to privacy and keeping my papers etc. from the eyes of government and the general public. I share what I choose to when I want to, so this isn't a good trade off in my opinion, even if you quailify for the Small Miner Exemption. I'd rather pay the fee than give up this kind of information.

Thanks for posting this.

ASTROBLEME


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CP
post May 13 2011, 09:07 AM
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Yep Astrobleme I agree and thanks for posting that up.
Even though you might qualify for the waiver, it would be in your best interest as a claim onwer to not use it. Pay the fee, keep your proprietary info private and also keep your claim in a "decided" status rather than "open" (may not be termed properly) until the BLM verifys the work, if that would ever happen.

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swizz
post May 13 2011, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE (ColoradoProspector @ May 13 2011, 09:07 AM) *
Yep Astrobleme I agree and thanks for posting that up.
Even though you might qualify for the waiver, it would be in your best interest as a claim onwer to not use it. Pay the fee, keep your proprietary info private and also keep your claim in a "decided" status rather than "open" (may not be termed properly) until the BLM verifys the work, if that would ever happen.

CP


Thanks Johnny & Dan for taking the time to look and helping me muddle through this.
It can be a challenge to decipher legal-speak and I appreciate any help, especially from the experienced group here.
If I get this right... I should disregard the 'Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification' form and instead, complete the 'Affidavit Of Assessment' form (submit by Sept 1).
Is this correct?


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leonard
post May 14 2011, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ May 13 2011, 08:37 AM) *
Thanks Johnny & Dan for taking the time to look and helping me muddle through this.
It can be a challenge to decipher legal-speak and I appreciate any help, especially from the experienced group here.
If I get this right... I should disregard the 'Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification' form and instead, complete the 'Affidavit Of Assessment' form (submit by Sept 1).
Is this correct?


I've always used the Small Miner exemption. Probably about at least 10 years. They have never followed up on it. I'll continue to use it. If they want a more detailed description of my improvements, they'll have to ask for it. I've never detailed the work I do. I just certify that I have done it.

Leonard
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CP
post May 17 2011, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ May 13 2011, 09:37 AM) *
Thanks Johnny & Dan for taking the time to look and helping me muddle through this.
It can be a challenge to decipher legal-speak and I appreciate any help, especially from the experienced group here.
If I get this right... I should disregard the 'Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification' form and instead, complete the 'Affidavit Of Assessment' form (submit by Sept 1).
Is this correct?


You're very welcome Chris, glad to help out. Yes I think you have it correct, someone can add more if I'm mistaken, and also make sure to note the claim number on the payment MO or check etc., and also always remember to send via certified mail with anything for your claim file so you know for sure it was received and by whom.



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leonard
post May 19 2011, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ May 11 2011, 09:09 AM) *
I noticed a fat envelope in my mailbox from the BLM/DOI. I immediately thought "oh boy... what now??" I figured it couldn't be too serious since it was not sent Certified Mail.
To my surprise, the the first thing I saw when I opened it was "Thank You...".
Basically a copy of my Mining Claim Filing, the new Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification (Form 3830-2), and Affidavit of Annual Assessment Work (Draft Form) - "not officially approved... but preferred" ???????

Thought I'd run these forms by the pros to see if anything significant has changed or if there's anything fishy, don't want to get unwittingly suckered into anything - "not officially approved... but preferred" kinda raises a small red flag for me. Here are some pics of the mailing. I blotched out my personal and specific claim info. Any other claim owners get this yet? Perhaps just me, since I filed this claim in 2010 and it's standard op procedure?
Thanks.


I didn't get any of that. The form I have used for years thats approved by the Denver office, is at http://www.golddredger.com/forms/coloradoa...avitoflabor.pdf In fact, they give out this link for those that don't have a form. I like the "simpler, less detail" on mine. I use the same form for Wyoming and for 2 claims in Colorado.

Leonard
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swizz
post May 20 2011, 06:01 PM
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Many thanks Leonard, that affidavit form looks waaaay more simplistic. If they don't need the juicy details, that's fine with me, but I'll keep track myself.
I know that the "worth of improvement" figure must meet or exceed $100 per year. I have a culvert pipe under one of the BLM roads smack dab in the middle of my claim that needs some attention so it shouldn't be hard for me to justify at least that amount of improvement for this year's filing.
So, I send this affidavit in with a check for $10 per my one 20 acre claim and I'm good to go for another year?
What am I missing here, it can't be that simple or inexpensive.
Perhaps County filing fees and a separate annual form for that as well?
Sorry for the rookish annual filing questions... this will be my first annual and I want to make sure I get it right. blush.gif



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ASTROBLEME
post May 21 2011, 07:14 AM
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QUOTE (swizz @ May 20 2011, 07:01 PM) *
Many thanks Leonard, that affidavit form looks waaaay more simplistic. If they don't need the juicy details, that's fine with me, but I'll keep track myself.
I know that the "worth of improvement" figure must meet or exceed $100 per year. I have a culvert pipe under one of the BLM roads smack dab in the middle of my claim that needs some attention so it shouldn't be hard for me to justify at least that amount of improvement for this year's filing.
So, I send this affidavit in with a check for $10 per my one 20 acre claim and I'm good to go for another year?
What am I missing here, it can't be that simple or inexpensive.
Perhaps County filing fees and a separate annual form for that as well?
Sorry for the rookish annual filing questions... this will be my first annual and I want to make sure I get it right. blush.gif


swizz,

While you must abide by the Small Miner's Exemption rules for the federal government by filing the Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification Form 3830-2 on or before September 1st, the affidavit of assessment work needs to be filed with the $10 fee on or before December 30th. Make sure to file the affidavit with the county before December 30th as well.

What always made me nervous about that process was the delay, for many months at times, for the waiver to be approved. If there is a problem with the claim, the waiver form or the affidavit, the claim could be in jeopardy. If someone wanted to enter the area and overstake the claim, they would take over in the event of a finding against the validity of your claim. By the time this all takes place, you are many months down the road thinking you’re good for the coming year. There is little hope of recovering the claim by then...if someone else has overstaked it before you can re-stake a valid claim correcting any errors.

All the "loose ends" with the Small Miner's Exemption process is a reason enough to pay the $140 annual maintenance fee in my opinion. In the event the claim is found invalid, at least you can get a refund of the fee. Keep in mind that validity issue may not get followed up for several years by BLM. If you have put money and labor into an invalid claim, there is no refund.

Having filed both ways, I would not take the chance on getting the waiver approved ever again. Too risky for my tastes.

Take care,

ASTROBLEME


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"Some day this crater is going to be a greatly talked about place, and if the above credit is due, as is certainly the case, I would like to have it generally known for the sake of the children." Daniel Moreau Barringer 2/1/1912 in a letter about the Barringer Meteorite Crater, Arizona USA
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swizz
post May 21 2011, 07:44 AM
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QUOTE (ASTROBLEME @ May 21 2011, 07:14 AM) *
While you must abide by the Small Miner's Exemption rules for the federal government by filing the Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification Form 3830-2 on or before September 1st, the affidavit of assessment work needs to be filed with the $10 fee on or before December 30th. Make sure to file the affidavit with the county before December 30th as well.


Thanks Bleme,
I'm confused regarding the above advice.
You suggested that I: "abide by" AND "file" the Maintenance Fee Waiver Certification Form 3830-2 (by Sept 1). Then... fill out and file the Affidavit Of Assessment ALSO and submit (to County and BLM) by December 30.
Am I misunderstanding this suggestion? ... or are you suggesting that I "abide by" and "file" the Maint Fee Waiver Cert Form 3830-2 ONLY, and disregard the Affidavit of Assessment?

I comprehend your reasoning and it makes sense. I'd like to go your route but I'm pulled over right now still studying the map. research.gif
The problems I have with Maint Waiver Cert Form 3830-2 are Items #3 and #4. Their legal-speak in these two items are difficult for me to translate according to the advice given in this thread... I've read them over and over again but still not EXACTLY sure what I would be agreeing to by signing, particularly within Item #4. Item #4 states that I need a NOI during my "first year of assessment"?, but that doesn't sound right to me. This is indeed my "first year of assessment". Last thing I want to do is file a NOI with them... which would obviously lead to a POO.
Item #3 states that I must fill out both forms.
Are they trying to sucker me into filling out a NOI (and subsequent POO) by submitting the Main Fee Waiver Cert Form 3830-2 as per the wording in Item #4??


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leonard
post May 21 2011, 09:38 AM
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You have to file the application with the BLM for the small miners exemption for the following year by 1 sept. So for 2012, you have to file it by 1 sept 2011. You actually are a year ahead that way. Thats free. Then before Dec 31, file the affidavit of labor with both the BLM and the county. I usually drop into the Lakewood office and file it there, costs $10.00 per claim and I can do all of colorado there, they keep a copy and I take the original to the county that the claim is in, for me, Boulder and Salida, to file at the recorders office. Most of the time I drive there to do it as you can actually file it almost any time that year. We usually get down to Buena Vista on our arkansas river claim in september so I take care of it then. My wyoming claim I sometimes take it or mail it. One year they looked at the legal description and told me I had an error. I always take extra affidavit forms with me so I filled out another one, they notorized it, for a fee, and I was good to go.

Last year when I took it into Lakewood, they actually entered it in LR-2000 while I was standing there.

Leonard
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swizz
post Feb 17 2012, 06:39 AM
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Update.
I went to the BLM headquarters in Lakewood to submit my Affidavit Of Labor. They would not accept the "new forms" that they sent me (pictured earlier in this thread) stating that they had been been rejected by higher powers in the US Gov.
Why did they send these forms to me in the first place (informing me that I should use these for all current annual filings) if they were never officially approved???????? bash.gif
They have NO official forms and said that I need to fabricate a form for this filing and it MUST have all of the necessary information or it will be rejected.
So... I submitted a variation of the form Leonard had posted (thank you Leonard!) and they accepted it along with my $10.
Following Astrobleme's advice... I have decided to start filing annually without the Affidavit Of Labor and just pay the $140 per year without the worry and potential loophole headaches.
Again... they would not provide a form for this and advised me to fabricate ANOTHER form to submit with my $140 for my 2013 filing. They showed me an example of a form they tried to get approved and said "it should look something like this".... but wouldn't let me copy or use it of course.
Johnny, or anyone else.... if you have a copy or template of an acceptable form for this type of annual filing, please share. I have until Sept 1st to submit my 2013 filing but would prefer to have this wrapped up by early spring.
Thanks!!!!! cheers.gif


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leonard
post Feb 17 2012, 09:24 AM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Feb 17 2012, 05:39 AM) *
Update.
I went to the BLM headquarters in Lakewood to submit my Affidavit Of Labor. They would not accept the "new forms" that they sent me (pictured earlier in this thread) stating that they had been been rejected by higher powers in the US Gov.
Why did they send these forms to me in the first place (informing me that I should use these for all current annual filings) if they were never officially approved???????? bash.gif
They have NO official forms and said that I need to fabricate a form for this filing and it MUST have all of the necessary information or it will be rejected.
So... I submitted a variation of the form Leonard had posted (thank you Leonard!) and they accepted it along with my $10.
Following Astrobleme's advice... I have decided to start filing annually without the Affidavit Of Labor and just pay the $140 per year without the worry and potential loophole headaches.
Again... they would not provide a form for this and advised me to fabricate ANOTHER form to submit with my $140 for my 2013 filing. They showed me an example of a form they tried to get approved and said "it should look something like this".... but wouldn't let me copy or use it of course.
Johnny, or anyone else.... if you have a copy or template of an acceptable form for this type of annual filing, please share. I have until Sept 1st to submit my 2013 filing but would prefer to have this wrapped up by early spring.
Thanks!!!!! cheers.gif


For the maintenance fee waiver you need to use their form OMB NO 1004-0114 You need to use a current version, August 31st, 2013, as they expire for some reason. The affidavit of Labor is what they didn't like. They told me that people were copying copyrighted forms and using them. Thats what they had the problem with.

I've heard them send people to my web site for the one I gave the link to on my site. It's a form that they showed me about 6-8 years ago. I use the same form for Wyoming. I just cross out the Colorado and write Wyoming in.

I wouldn't pay the $140 if you are actively working on your claim. Especially if you plan on filing the small miners exemption and the affidavitt of labor early in the year. You get the paperwork back fairly fast. I usually file my Lakewood paperwork in person and they copy everything and give me back the original for me to take it to the county. This year I mailed my Wyoming paperwork in and it took about 2 months to get it back. I was worried but they had cashed the check. Whenever I sent paperwork in that they didn't like, they didn't cash the check. Usually I get paperwork back from the county in a week or so.

Leonard
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swizz
post Feb 17 2012, 09:48 AM
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Thanks again Leonard,
Quite honestly the $140 doesn't rock my boat too hard and it's worth the peace-of-mind to me.
I'd like to go that route this year (for various reasons similar to Johnny's statements) rather than the Maint Fee Waiver option.
If anyone has a generic template or form out there for the $140 annual filing they'd like to share, I'd much appreciate it.
I could draft one myself but I know this has already been done and refined by now.


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swizz
post Apr 7 2012, 08:21 AM
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Update
My Non-Exempt filing was a success and not difficult. Good to go thru 2013. My annual recording and NOI To Hold has been accepted, updated, and filed (months before my deadline). info_grin.gif
Since I had filed Exempt for my previous annual filings (filed + follow-through with accepted Maint Fee Waiver, Affidavit Of Labor, $10 fee, etc)... I now have the added knowledge and skill to file/renew annually as a Non-Exempt Claim Owner with confidence (which is how I currently prefer to file). It's a good feeling and bonus to know and have used the process for both types of filings.

Many thanks again for the help gang. worthy.gif worthy.gif


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