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Claim Jumpers, Altering Patented Mining Claim Boundaries
Clay Diggins
post Aug 10 2017, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE (Gold Hill Miner @ Jun 19 2017, 01:58 PM) *
I am in possession of 6 survey plats showing the accurate location of my claim and 1 inaccurate setback line by an inexperienced surveyor and an incorrect Cadastral Survey/ meets and bounds survey from the BLM.

Obviously it's a complex matter with an admitted controversy.
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That happens a lot with mining claims.

QUOTE (swizz @ Aug 10 2017, 01:52 PM) *
Ok Clay, I guess we'll wait for him to go to court. rolleyes.gif

Yes we will. I hope the judge finds the facts to be in his favor. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif
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swizz
post Aug 10 2017, 01:30 PM
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Who should he use to serve the court papers... or "enforce" his plea?
Oh yeah, the County Sheriff would work well for that task. He could have someone else serve I reckon, but why not.
Thank you again for your valuable input amigo. cheers.gif


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johnnybravo300
post Aug 10 2017, 02:46 PM
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It doesn't seem there is a property line dispute if there are official documents showing this. That's been settled long ago. It seems there is an aggressive claim jumper involved and that's another issue.

A few points to think about...

Sheriff's don't usually "catch" the trespassers, the property owners do.


Also note that in reality a restraining order won't stop a criminal. There have been many women beaten and raped and people killed under that "protection", and to me it's laughable. What happens when it doesn't work....?

Much respect to all here but I just dont see alot of options with a guy like this. It sounds like he could be a dangerous fella and you better be on point and watch your back out there.
Presenting him with a restraining order or a visit from the sheriff may just p1$$ him off enough to do something stupid.

Be safe out there!



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johnnybravo300
post Aug 11 2017, 06:03 AM
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I'm curious how this will turn out. Hopefully that dude isn't full blown looney but you just never know about people these days, or what they might try....that's all I was saying.
If he's already pushing the limits and trespassing like he is, he must have no respect for the law or for you.

Again, be safe out there!


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Gold Hill Miner
post Aug 30 2017, 08:29 AM
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These claim jumpers are trying to pass off their 1888 location certificate as a legal parcel description with only one out 4 intersecting claims. They have a long history of violence and trespass. I have the provenance to show they have also tampered with patented claim monuments and bearing trees.

The judge would not give me a permanent restraining order after these claim jumpers used their tractor as a weapon to bulldoze our monuments into our house from above and booby trapped our driveway by burying sharp metal under the dirt.

I am under the impression that no one can alter a patented mining claim or several. Why i would even have to go to court to defend my patented claim locations is beyond me. It blows my mind that after my surveyors have provided evidence of tampering up here, I can't get the BLM to come look at their altered monuments for 5 minutes.

I do want to point out to Gene, I was at BLM public room recently and decided I would see what was up with the patents stored in the BLM database. I had already received one of the patented claim packages for my most western claim from the national archives. The BLM handed me the pre amended version. Could this be one if the 4500 Colorado claims in the General Land Office corruption era in the late 1880's? I read about this in your course Advanced Topics In Mineral Survey Retracement and I believe you have mentioned this on this site. It would make sense in this area centered around the Switzerland Trail Railroad.

I believe you also mentioned BLM is now aware of this. Is anyone fixing the records to show the correct amendments on the patents in the BLM database?

Thank you everyone! I guess only the courts can shut down claim jumpers. Still a judge is not going to do a site visit for 5 minutes and will have us waste more time and money endlessly showing cartoons on plats.

Happy and successful diggings to all,
Gold Hill Miner
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Crusty
post Aug 30 2017, 09:02 AM
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Claim jumpers suck gen069.gif


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Gene Kooper
post Aug 30 2017, 01:16 PM
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GHM,

I'm going to say something, BUT do NOT take it as legal advice. Land surveyors apply the law; attorneys interpret the law. I am not aware of any unpatented lode or placer claims that you may hold in the Gold Hill area. I am aware that you do have title to two or more patented lode mining claims. When you talk to the sheriff, do not tell him that your neighbor is claim jumping. That implies that the claims are unpatented and they usually will avoid getting involved without a court order. The reasoning being that they are not adjudicators of possessory mineral rights of private parties

Tell the sheriff that your neighbor is trespassing on your private property. You do have one or more plats of your property prepared by other surveyor(s) so you can show the sheriff's deputy where your property is located and, from your prior posts the disturbances by your neighbor on your private land. It would be best to try and get them to come up when he is on your property. Without your permission, his being on your property is criminal trespass and therefore, subject to criminal sanctions. That is why I mentioned in an earlier post that you should consider documenting any trespass with photos. Assuming you have a digital camera, have the date and time stamp feature turned on to better document when the trespass(es) occur.

As for the destruction of monuments, you should have a plat prepared by your surveyor that certifies what monuments they found. If the surveyor used the monument as control for their survey they are also required to file a monument record that includes at least two accessories. The accessories can be used to reestablish the mineral survey corner should it be destroyed by your neighbor's criminal behavior. The statute that I cited in a prior post to this thread concerning the willful destruction of a survey monument is a misdemeanor and carries criminal penalties. I suggest you talk to your attorney and with his/her help file a complaint with the county or district attorney.

It sounds very fishy that the neighbor's attorney wants to negotiate an agreement; probably because they know your neighbor has screwed up, so to speak.

As for the patents at the BLM Public Room, they are on aperture cards and the cost is $1.10 per page. The GLO Records web site has scanned copies of patents issued after 1909. Before that date, you can often get a patent by looking at the Control Document Index. Not all early patents are there, but the great majority of them are. Feel free to email me with your claim names and mineral survey numbers and I'll help you look for those online.

Finally, the period of time that you note is from June 20, 1899 through Aug. 8, 1904. There was a small time buffer to get everyone notified of the changes. I can discuss more about your claims via email. Now the "patent package" that is officially referred to as the Land Entry Case File is obtained from the National Archives in Washington D.C. For mineral surveys, the mining claimant/patent applicant compiles all of the information and records for their claim (e.g. newspaper notices) that are required to be submitted before the Land Office will issue the patent. The patent applicant submits the patent application to the local land office. As you found out, that information includes a lot more than what is in the patent.

Also, if you get bored or cold up on Gold Hill this next February and desire to [literally] play roulette, I will be giving an 8-hour workshop at the Luxor in Las Vegas on February 22. My talk is on Advanced Topics in Mineral Surveys and will go into the details of that 5-year period from 1899 to 1904. The talk is part of a conference sponsored by the National Society of Professional Surveyors, the Western Federation of Professional Surveyors, the Arizona Professional Land Surveyors, the Nevada Association of Land Surveyors, and the Utah Council of Land Surveyors. It is a warm up to a talk I am planning to give in Denver in March sponsored by the BLM for Federal surveyors and Certified Federal Surveyors.
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Clay Diggins
post Sep 1 2017, 10:22 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up Gene. Now that you have shared the private status of the land in question (not a mining claim) the puzzle becomes clear. The original post seemed to indicate a mix of mining claims and patents. Your non legal advice is good information in my opinion.

Since there is no mining claim or "claim jumping" going on my previous information doesn't apply to this situation. This appears to be a private matter involving private property neighbors. If trespassing is involved the Sheriff would be the enforcement authority and if boundary disputes are involved it will be a matter for the courts. In both cases State law would be controlling, not federal law or agencies.

Perhaps clarity on the following points may help others in the future:

When a mining claim goes to patent it is no longer a mining claim it is private property. Being private property it is no different than any other private property, the BLM and other federal land management agencies no longer have a part to play in the former mining claim, now private land, status.

"Claim jumping" is the act of attempting to challenge a prior existing (senior) mining claim based on paperwork or technicalities. The courts have long frowned upon purely legal challenges to senior mining claims that are being maintained and occupied by their owners. Claim jumping does not often involve the theft of minerals and if it does the court must first resolve the adverse claim before mineral theft can be established.

"Higrading" is the act of stealing minerals from an active mining claim. Higrading is theft of minerals and is not a direct challenge to the validity of a mining claim.

Neither claim jumping nor higrading are terms that apply to private property. Virtually all of the private land in the public land states was once public land that has gone to patent. Where you live and work is patented land. Patented land = private land. Most patented private land was never a mining claim but in the cases where it was a mining claim that went to mineral patent the land is now private and is in no way a "claim" mining or otherwise.
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Crusty
post Sep 1 2017, 10:46 AM
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Great points! Makes things much clearer!


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Gold Hill Miner
post Sep 1 2017, 11:21 AM
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All my claims went to Mineral Patent. I do get the claims are private property.
We are in touch with the state land board and we are trying to get any government entity to handle current criminal and mineral trespass issues on adjoining government land at this point. The courts are going to have to remove the neighbor from our land.

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johnnybravo300
post Sep 1 2017, 06:39 PM
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High grading was a term used by the old timers mostly in regards to hard rock miners that would conceal (steal) ore to take home and sell for themselves. The higher paying mines with good working conditions didn't have as many problems with it as the others, and some estimates put high grading losses at astounding numbers...no one would know exactly.
I've never read much about it happening at placer operations where the bosses are usually present during the day and at clean up.

Sounds like it's flat out trespassing if it's private property. The sheriff is the man, yep.


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Gold Hill Miner
post Nov 10 2017, 11:52 AM
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QUOTE (johnnybravo300 @ Sep 1 2017, 07:39 PM) *
High grading was a term used by the old timers mostly in regards to hard rock miners that would conceal (steal) ore to take home and sell for themselves. The higher paying mines with good working conditions didn't have as many problems with it as the others, and some estimates put high grading losses at astounding numbers...no one would know exactly.
I've never read much about it happening at placer operations where the bosses are usually present during the day and at clean up.

Sounds like it's flat out trespassing if it's private property. The sheriff is the man, yep.


I spoke with a BLM law enforcement official in Denver.
1. He explained it is easy to alter the BLM monuments
2. I explained many of the patented mining claim shafts and tunnels are now monumented on BLM land again.
3. He was not surprised I could not get BLM up for a site visit and advised I go to the state director
4. Out of 7 claims I own all or part of, only 2 mining claim lines border private land. The BLM parcels in between and boarding my private patented land have all had their BLM monuments altered.
5. The BLM will prosecute and order a re survey for their managed land in my area once we can get them here for a site visit according to this law enforcement official.
6. For now there is no mineral leasing in this area.

Which patent law states no one can ever alter a 100 year old patented mining claim?

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CP
post Nov 16 2017, 01:56 PM
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Hi Gold Hill Miner, glad you're making some headway on that re-establishment of your patented claim boundaries. GOOD WORK!
I'm not aware of a "patent law" that says what you asked about. However as I was explained it by our surveyor on the private survey crew I worked with.......... It is more than difficult to move or even alter any established survey markers in the field.....most especially any BLM or USGS established monuments... as a private surveyor that was the last thing he even wanted to think about was ever altering any government survey monuments. Yes it could be done but that private surveyor sure better have his ducks all in a row for reasons and records filed of such alterations!

I know the BLM law enforcement person told you this but I believe they are mistaken on that since they are trained for law enforcement and not surveying. That would be understandable why enforcement might be mistaken.
Again, I was merely a worker on the survey party and not the certified surveyor, but I was led to believe altering or moving monuments was a no no in general without proper field procedures, steps and re-recording/filing. All very old and well established laws for surveyors as some of the oldest in use.

Gene being an actual surveyor can shed more light on this sometime when gets back in the forum I"m sure.

Didn't this situation with a bordering private land holder neighboring your claims also have a residential well site involved that was of a "questionable" location with regards to the borders in question?


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Gold Hill Miner
post Nov 16 2017, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (CP @ Nov 16 2017, 01:56 PM) *
Hi Gold Hill Miner, glad you're making some headway on that re-establishment of your patented claim boundaries. GOOD WORK!
I'm not aware of a "patent law" that says what you asked about. However as I was explained it by our surveyor on the private survey crew I worked with.......... It is more than difficult to move or even alter any established survey markers in the field.....most especially any BLM or USGS established monuments... as a private surveyor that was the last thing he even wanted to think about was ever altering any government survey monuments. Yes it could be done but that private surveyor sure better have his ducks all in a row for reasons and records filed of such alterations!

I know the BLM law enforcement person told you this but I believe they are mistaken on that since they are trained for law enforcement and not surveying. That would be understandable why enforcement might be mistaken.
Again, I was merely a worker on the survey party and not the certified surveyor, but I was led to believe altering or moving monuments was a no no in general without proper field procedures, steps and re-recording/filing. All very old and well established laws for surveyors as some of the oldest in use.

Gene being an actual surveyor can shed more light on this sometime when gets back in the forum I"m sure.

Didn't this situation with a bordering private land holder neighboring your claims also have a residential well site involved that was of a "questionable" location with regards to the borders in question?


Hi,
It is extremely easy to alter the BLM monument stakes and the old stone monuments. We are finding cement over the 100 year old carved monuments, new carvings spelling the claim names wrong, caps switched, buried and no evidence of. It is becoming quite comical since I've been documenting the movement and disappearance for a while now. (at least 99% of my land boarders BLM parcels) I can't seem to get them up here, but a judge will and soon I hope. i have 4 plats by one of the surveyors that helped me and for some reason, monuments that were discovered on plat 2, disappeared on plat 3 & 4. HMM. Another surveyors exhibit plat doesn't agree with the first 4.
The well among other things were in trespass on government land that the government sold to me. The water resource board transferred the ownership to me. The trespassers could have asked me for help instead of tampering with monuments to hide more of their trespass issues on government land.
I can certainly prove someone has added dirt on to one of my mine shafts and altered monuments around the mountain since 2010. They seem to move and change locations quite frequently.
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CP
post Nov 16 2017, 04:03 PM
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Nice work on that as well. You've gotten quite a lot accomplished on this ordeal! thumbsupsmileyanim.gif You're correct that seems comical at that point wow! Hope the BLM pays the site a visit to straighten it all out soon too.


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