Starting the new year! Options

[Caveman]

If the weather holds, I will be out running a 2" suction dredge on Friday. I have had problems with clogs just past the bend of the nozzle every time I have tried it, and I am asking for advice to try and reduce the incidense of this, and to reduce the time it takes to clear the problem. Thin, flatter rocks (great skippers!) are the ones that get me most, and get jammed in there pretty good. I usually have to remove the hose to get them cleared. The area I'm working has tons of sandy materal, and the largest rocks are about half the size of cinder blocks, so there are lots 2" and smaller rocks to deal with, but it's a great place to learn how to run things with good, clean fines. I was there scouting on Monday and found what looks to be a decent pocket. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Caveman

[swizz]

Caveman! Balls to ya... go git some!
Weather looks good from Friday on thru the weekend.
If I recall, I think you have a small 2" dredge. I owned a small Keene dredge like that for a while and can share my experiences with the pesky clogs.
I ran a jet-flare nozzle system... judging by your post I'm thinking you have the suction nozzle. Suction nozzles might be a little more prone to clogging due to the bend in the nozzle but I don't think that's the primary reason. My dredge clogged constantly when I first got it but I learned a few things that reduced the frequency of rock jams. You'll never eliminate jams altogether, that's just part of dredging but a few things you can do are:
1. Keep a finger or two in the nozzle. You'll feel larger rocks trying to get through before they have a chance. Sometimes they still get through but this helps a lot with a smaller dredge.
2. Slow down the engine. This was my biggest problem early on. My whole philosophy in the beginning was to move as much material as I could and as fast as the machine would allow. Bad idea with a small dredge. Mine had a 2.5hp Honda which ran extremely well. I found that if I ran it half-throttle or lower two things happened: I recovered more Gold and had fewer clogs. True... I moved less material but the returns were much better and the clogs far fewer. I remember one day of dredging in particular. My friend who was dredge tending had a snuffer bottle. He was periodically snuffering the riffles out of curiosity while I was dredging away. He stopped me and said all the Gold was in the last riffle! I immediately slowed way down and the results were instantly better... fewer clogs and better recovery. It felt less productive but wound up being way more productive in terms of recovery and far less down time.
3. There are tools to help you unclog most jams fairly quickly. My dredge came with a two pronged rod that I could stick up the hose and twist to dislodge rocks... mostly clogs on the sluice end of the hose. Forward clogs that won't tap out almost always require a disconnect, maybe more with a suction nozzle system.
4. If you wanna run slow like I suggested but are using GoldHog or other matting that requires good water speed to exchange, compensate by increasing the pitch of the sluice rather than increasing motor speed.
Clogs kinda go with the turf and I got really good at fixing them fast most of the time. The material you're working also has a lot to do with potential jams... shape especially. River rock is usually easier on the system than jagged. Skippers like you mentioned can be tricky because they can slip by, rotate, and jam... just have to do your best on the nozzle to avoid the bad ones. I can't think of anything else but there are other dredgers here with more experience that can probably also give some tips they've learned.
Hope ya make it out this weekend, I'm jealous!

[russau]

i found that keeping your hose as straight as you can will help keeping from any rock jams in the hose.this is whats works for me. also if you can install a blaster hose to help losen the bigger rocks from the sandy material and keep you suction tip back from where your pointing the blaster hose and let the dredge suck that material over towards your suction line,itll help you see the guily rocks thast clog your hose and eventually youll be dredgeing faster.

[Caveman]

Swizz, Russ,

Great info guys! I will try all that when I go tomorrow. I WAS going all out on the dredge trying to move as much material as possible. Never crossed my mind about the blaster hose - I have a 25 footer I take with me and have a sweeper head with a shut off to boot - They will get a work out. I haven't had a problem with the 2" hose, just at the nozzle. I have 30' each of the pressure hose (1 1/4") and the working hose (2"). Is this too much? It seems to be working fine.... but you guys know better. I cubed the 2 buckets of material I brought home today and got 2 grains from the top shelf - still have 2 shelves to go.... best results I have had since I started.... very fine, but very clean. Thanks for the help!

Caveman

[Denise]

Good luck out there today Caveman and stay warm.

[russau]

if you only got 2 grains of gold on the top shelf of your Gold Cube, i really doubt that there will be any on the rest of the shelves. i love my Gold Cube for its speed and efficeincy!

[Caveman]

if you only got 2 grains of gold on the top shelf of your Gold Cube, i really doubt that there will be any on the rest of the shelves. i love my Gold Cube for its speed and efficeincy!

That's what I'm thinking.... but I was really pushing it through. 2 buckets in about 10mins, big, heavy scoops, too. There's about a half a cup per shelf, so panning a cup shouldn't take me long, but then again, it is a caveman doing the panning. I would love to push 10 buckets through it at the creek sometime to really load it up..... but who has that kind of time to classify to 1/8? I might try 1/4, to see if that will work - they do have a new attachment that classifies to 1/4 so you can "highbank" at the stream, with the same pump, but it looks slow. I'm thinking pre-classify, and run it. I'm dredging today, though.

Gotta go load up and get goin'
Caveman

[russau]

yep that Gold Banker looks good! id like to have one myself. but the Gold Cube will be nice to run your dredge cons through! thats what im planning on doing this year with my Gold Cube!actually id like to use a 2 inch suction nozzel to feed my GC w/the Gold Banker on top to screen off waste.it would be great on the Arkansa at Buena Vista.

[Caveman]

yep that Gold Banker looks good! id like to have one myself. but the Gold Cube will be nice to run your dredge cons through! thats what im planning on doing this year with my Gold Cube!actually id like to use a 2 inch suction nozzel to feed my GC w/the Gold Banker on top to screen off waste.it would be great on the Arkansa at Buena Vista.

I hear you! This place I'm at would be great to do that too, judging from the way the inspection mat looked today... LOTS of fines. Swizz, cutting back to half (actually just above, due to the length of my hoses) worked great! Still had enough flow for the Gold Hog matting too! Only one moderate jam up in the nozzle (freed with a thick green stick) and none in the hose. Russ, I tried that trick with the blaster hose, but I need to get more coordinated. I will pan out the material on Tuesday or Wednesday and post the results. It was cold out there, but not too bad - untill the wind kicked in. All in all, a great day!

[russau]

i sometimes tie the blaster hose to my 4 inch nozzel to give my arm a break.....its warmer under water away from the breeze that really cools you down quick! plus being underwater lets you see what your sucking up and what to throw away to prevent it going up the nozzel.

[Caveman]

I'm not at that level yet.... maybe someday, but for now, I'm in the top 3 feet. Still a novice, still working the "newbie" paint off, so to speak. I've got a LOT to learn!

Caveman

[Caveman]

After working yesterday, I'm thinking I should shorten my suction hose to 18' to 20' - the pressure hose works great at 30', so I'll be leaving it alone. It lets me put the moter a decent distance away at a good water source. The suction hose, at 30 ft, forcces me to run the moter just under half throttle just to get water through the sluice. I can't move material until I'm about 3 or 4 ticks over half throttle. I think I'll get better flow with a shorter hose. what do you guys think?

Caveman

[swizz]

Yes, definitely shorten the suction hose with that small of system.
... and like russ pointed out, try to keep it as straight as possible while working.
I think my hose was half the length of the one you're running, but I was running a floating unit and I think you're banking... shouldn't matter. The shorter suction hose will help manage things better and improve suction efficiency.

[russau]

absolutly! a shorter hose will help reduce rock jams even for the veteran dredger! plus useing good suction hose that has a smooth interior and flexable when in cold water,plus like i said ,keeping the hoses as straight as possible all help in preventing rock plugups. not to mention ,not hogging material. it all takes time to learn. then lookout!:)

[Caveman]

Did pretty well keeping the hose straight, some mild bends were all. No hose jams at all this time out. Only i moderate nozzle jam that took about 20 seconds to clear. I had cut a fairly lengthy thick green stick earlier and kept it handy. As soon as I heard the rattle, I ram-rodded the nozzle, and voila! the rattle stopped and down the hose the rock went. The two finger method also worked very well preventing those pesky "skippers" from finding their way in. The major work was moving the larger rocks back out of the way. I raked them with clawed fingers back between my legs, back filling the trench I was leaving behind me. I averaged about 2 feet down by 2 1/2 feet wide - I worked about 4' of existing trench, wich was 6" below water level, then extended it about another 2 to 3', where the bed was 1" above water level. Steady, no breaks except for 1 fuel-up (started with a half tank) for a little over 2 hours - after I got the throttle adjusted.

Most of the clogs I had were a sand filled nozzle that cleared when I inverted the nozzle. I knew this was because I had too much hose, but I left my cutting tools at home. I think 18' to 20 feet will work just fine - the Keene site sells set-ups with 18' of suction hose - so I will shorten mine by 10 - 12'. I am going to keep the 30' pressure hose - it's working just fine, plus the moter is upstream and uphill most of the time I get set up - I don't want my intake downstream of where I'm working!

The advice from you guys was stellar! I wouldn't have been able to do anywhere near what I did with out it. The blaster method worked great when I got to the end of the trench, and left me nice piles of finer material to suction away from the larger rock. Kept me working steady so I didn't get cold either!. Froze when I went to clean up though! Darn wind. Fleece and jacket did't help either. Glad the truck was close!

I had fun, and was dredging for about 2 1/2 hours. Add another 2 hours for carry in and out, set-up and break-down and changing into the wetsuit. It's a full skin, not a farmer john. I also spent some time "exploring". Found a few other nice possiblities for later.

That's about all for now - I will post the results of the day later on in the week, when I get around to panning it out.

Caveman