BUYER BEWARE! ILLEGAL REC GUIDE SERVICES Options

[swizz]

There is at least one (possibly more) individuals/vendors offering "recreational" guided Gold prospecting trips in the Colorado front range. These services are advertised on Craigslist, Facebook, and often have elaborate websites.
The daily pay-to-play outings are advertised to be on land that is owned by CITY, COUNTY, and PARKS which are PRIVATELY OWNED by CITY, COUNTY, and PARKS. The privilege of recreational panning and sluicing activities is already offered to the public at no charge in these areas by CITY, COUNTY, and PARKS.... they are designated "recreational" areas put in place by you the voter/taxpayer. Why would you PAY someone any fee or sum of money to hold your hand there? Are you and your family that clueless? If you are... this is the demographic the illegal operations are targeting. You have already paid for the privilege to use these lands. The locations are offered to the public by the CITY, COUNTY, and PARKS for your public use... you have already paid taxes and/or voted for these privileges and can enjoy them at no charge. You gain no further privileges by paying someone (especially if they are operating illegally) to take you there... where everyone and their sister is already panning for FREE, lol. Your wallet just gets lighter while you listen to some guy's bs prospecting "tricks" theories and techniques. Do you really want to pay some greedy prospector for "learning" their panning techniques, their "sure thing" and "secret" spots on your recreational land (while others are there prospecting and learning for free), and "experience" their sales pitch and "learning" for a fee?
That's fine if you do.... just make sure they are operating legally. The good guys share these tips, techniques, locations, and honest experiences with others for free (Hank and others know I practice what I preach). People mining miners will try to charge you. There are no "tricks" or fees, this is reality. Fortunately there are sites like CP where this information, "learning", "techniques", advice, and "experiences" along with a vast archive of resources are freely shared here and LEGALLY without a fee. CP isn't the end-all resource but it is damn good one... I know of none better. Prospecting, panning , and sluicing on recreational designated lands is not rocket science and does not require a fee to a private company to help you do it. You can learn theory, panning technique, and equipment processes here, at other free forums, and on youtube for Christ's sake. It's that easy. There are no super-secret magic panning and sluicing "tricks" to learn... which these shoddy outfits often advertise. These "tricks" are available everywhere online. The only "trick" that occurs is when your money magically disappears.

Need to learn where to dig and swirl a pan? Perhaps you'd like to explore something outside of the city rec areas and enjoy your RIGHTS instead of dictated 'recreational' privileges? Or... stay within the recreational public use areas which are close to you and enjoy them (for free!) at your leisure? Rec privileges are nice (and most often free to the public). But certainly not nice enough to pay additional fees to an illegal vendor, lark, or scam artist to hold your hand while emptying your wallet and slipping you a bag lunch.
Enjoy your recreational panning privileges for free. True exploration, prospecting, and especially discovery is by far more rewarding than giving your hard earned money to some guy who wants to make you lunch and take you to a public rec area to swirl a pan and offer you secret "tricks".

BEWARE:
The CITY, COUNTY, and PARKS legally require a permit and/or permissions for individuals and/or vendors to charge money for services rendered on their properties. ASK FOR THIS DOCUMENTATION BEFORE YOU PART WITH YOUR MONEY. A legally operating vendor or individual offering guided services, products, or services rendered on CITY, COUNTY, or PARKS owned lands MUST obtain and possess these permissions. They must present this documentation upon request.
If they fail to present it and give you a flowery story about why they are not required to present this, PURE BS... run away as fast as you can. In fact, run to the CITY, COUNTY, or PARKS as fast as you can to make sure it's legal for the vendor/individual to take your money and offer a prospecting guide service on their rec designated lands.... or others will unknowingly continue to fuel their illegal operation(s).

Sometimes these larks will state things like "we don't charge you for the location" and act like it's a legal disclaimer to hide behind. Fact is... they are charging for services ON these locations without permissions to conduct a legal business there. That is a land usage violation and punishable.
If you do not check the legality of the vendor/individual.... illegal operations like this WILL tarnish recreational prospecting and jeopardize the sanctity and privileges of ALL recreational users who prospect on these lands. More 'prospecting guide services' and scam artists will see the opportunity and set up shop to take advantage as well. Abusing the recreational system on this level is appalling on many levels and will certainly be the ultimate ruin of recreational panning and sluicing as we know it. These vendors typically preach that they are trying to preserve rec prospecting when they are actually exploiting it monetarily... quite the scam. I don't want to see rec panning and sluicing exploited like this, especially illegally, I would like the heritage of Colorado recreational panning and sluicing privileges to remain in tact and in good faith with the CITY, COUNTY, and PARKS. They did not open these areas so vendors could set up shop and charge people money for profit. This amounts to a blatant exploitation of what the CITY, COUNTY, and PARKS, have given us recreationally. The abuse of our recreational privileges by greedy individuals and vendors who charge money on those lands could very well ruin it for recreational panning and sluicing in our state. The state does not tolerate illegal activities which exploit recreational privileges on the recreational designated lands. They can take rec privileges away if the abuses of the system get out of hand... hell they can do it on a whim. Illegal outfits give them plenty of justification to close rec areas open to prospecting. They weren't opened for folks to run a mining business on... the rec areas are there for the public users, not illegal business operators. Please don't support individuals or vendors who practice on rec lands illegally, it could also bite YOU in the ass, please be careful.

KNOW THIS:
It is ILLEGAL to offer and charge people for services or to sell or advertise retail or wholesale items and products on these lands for profit without documented permissions. ASK to see these permissions and/or verify them.
It is ILLEGAL to guide persons and children without proper business liability insurance coverage. As a customer you have every right to ask.... especially if you are including children in your outing, as there are legal liability issues involving potential injuries, etc. ASK for a Certification of Limited Liability Insurance in addition to the required permits to run this type of operation. Do not sign you or your children's injury liability and compensatory rights away to an unscrupulous illegal vendor or individual who does not have adequate business insurance coverage and documented permissions from CITY, COUNTY, or PARK rec areas which you can view and print... if that is where they are taking you!!


Please do not buy into these scams, individuals, or snazzy websites trying to sell this illegal service. Make sure they are operating LEGALLY regardless of their sales pitch, elaborate advertising, and possible claims to "fighting for your recreational privileges" (they often claim that these privileges are "rights")... you already possess the privilege and these outfits are jeopardizing it right in front of you... and you're helping finance the demise of recreational panning/sluicing if you use their illegal services. The websites will typically paint a pretty picture stating that they are "working hard to make recreational prospecting a RIGHT" or state that they are "working hard to create more recreational areas for you". This is the most laughable and pathetic part of the ripoff and it is a common pitch for this scam.
They want more free public recreational areas available to quietly operate their illegal businesses on.... get it?. Heck, maybe they can recommend and sell you some of their equipment while you're there, right? Their motives are clear to me and many others. MONEY. Report them immediately if they do not present you with their legal documentation mentioned above. Please do your part. This miner-mining-miners crap is getting old, always a new scam like this... don't buy into it. Report it.
Call the CITY, COUNTY, or PARKS prior to shelling out money to someone offering 'services' on your recreationally designated parks, open spaces, and city owned lands. Ask if they know of the individual or vendor who is charging money for services rendered there.
Be sure that the CITY, COUNTY, or PARKS knows that you are being charged money for services rendered on their recreational property for that day and it is legally permitted... and please make sure that whomever is charging you money, is compliant operating with the proper permissions, permitting, and liability coverage. If not... please contact the CITY, COUNTY, or PARKS agency where the vendor is operating. You may also contact the State and report this activity if it is unlawful: DORA, COLORADO REGULATORY AGENCY

PLEASE
Know what you are getting into before opening your wallet, there are a lot of larks out there... and they want your cash in a bad way... for something you can easily do for FREE.
Need FREE help? We'll help ya... as will most at other clubs who truly value the REAL mining heritage and your FREE recreational privileges. Good guys don't charge ya for this... money grubbers, scammers, and larks do.

I am a Small Scale Miner (claim owner) who enjoys his RIGHTS... and I occasionally like to exercise my privileges to play on recreationally designated lands open to prospecting. I value ALL public lands and hate to see this type of illegal activity occurring on them for the benefit of money grubbin. It is an illegal abuse of the system, could result in loss of privileges, and definitely gives honest miners and prospectors a bad name.

[Denise]

A shame, but I have still been hearing and seeing posts on the net of a tour guide taking people (even out of state visitors) to Cache Creek. This guy does NOT have a guide and outfitters license! I really hate seeing people being taken advantage of!

If you see or hear of this going on, please report it to the proper agency. These people will ruin it for those trying to do things right if they are not stopped.

Place looks like hell from the pictures!!

[leonard]

A shame, but I have still been hearing and seeing posts on the net of a tour guide taking people (even out of state visitors) to Cache Creek. This guy does NOT have a guide and outfitters license! I really hate seeing people being taken advantage of!

If you see or hear of this going on, please report it to the proper agency. These people will ruin it for those trying to do things right if they are not stopped.

Place looks like hell from the pictures!!

First, it's not me.

If it's who I think it is, there are several that I've seen, he is well worth the money if you are from out of state. I don't personally have a problem with paying someone that knows more than I do to take their time to teach me. It's done all the time at institutions of higher learning. In fact I was paid to guide learning in the field of electronics for 27 years. The person in question, once again, if he is who I think, has far the most experience prospecting in his area of anyone that I know. He can put you on the gold because he has the experience digging there. He can show you gold in a sluice any time of the year.

Cache Creek is one of very few places on the Arkansas that is open to the public. It gets a lot of use but it wasn't pristine before the BLM opened it up. It had been worked hard and put away wet. I have a series of videos taken 8 years ago at Cache Creek. http://golddredgervideo.com/prospecting/ca...ek2006part2.wmv


Leonard

[swizz]

I don't personally have a problem with paying someone that knows more than I do to take their time to teach me. It's done all the time at institutions of higher learning.

It is perfectly legal to teach at an "institution of higher learning".... you got that right Leonard.
It is NOT LEGAL to offer paid guide services at a public recreation area without permitting or a type of outfitter/guide license. This can involve first aid training, CPR, liability, and other requirements in place to protect the consumer, etc.... and the guide from being sued for that matter.
Nobody has a problem with legal guide services. Fly by the seat of your pants guide operations at Cache Creek are ILLEGAL.
Get it?
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Denise. BLM needs to know. It's just another thing they'll cite as a chronic problem when they close the area for good.

[leonard]

It is perfectly legal to teach at an "institution of higher learning".... you got that right Leonard.
It is NOT LEGAL to offer paid guide services at a public recreation area.
Nobody has a problem with legal guide services. Guide operations at Cache Creek are ILLEGAL.
Get it?
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Denise. BLM needs to know. It's just another thing they'll cite as a chronic problem when they close the area for good.

If a bunch of people bring it to the BLM's attention, it's just one more reason for them to close the area completely. The problems at Cache Creek aren't caused by a few guided trips. They are probably some of the very best at obeying the rules. The problems are caused by the people that don't know or don't care about the rules. That and over use of the are because of very few places to go. I don't care if it gets closed down, I have lots of places to go.

Leonard

[swizz]

If a bunch of people bring it to the BLM's attention, it's just one more reason for them to close the area completely.

Leonard

so.... just turn your head and cough while the vultures monetarily prey on noobies right next to you, illegally? If it were legal that's one thing, but COME ON. I know you don't personally go there and could care less whether they close it or not as you stated, but how do you even find it to be moral? I've never even been there but I give a hoot.
I'm not suggesting that "a bunch of people bring it to the BLM's attention".... but maybe they should now that you mention it.
Colorado Prospector Club is certainly not in the business of advocating illegal activities on recreational lands designated for prospecting, quite the opposite.