SWOMA info Options

[Mineral Estate G...]

As does this organization attempt to do for prospectors/miners in Colorado, the South West Oregon Mining Association is an organized group of miners and others actively working to preserve and protect the mining heritage of South Western Oregon. This organization takes a proactive stance toward the promotion and protection of mining in Oregon elsewhere.

http://www.miningrights.org/about.html

[Mineral Estate G...]

CP “ Even though this same group told the Colorado Prospector club to take a flying leap off a tall cliff in 2005 whilst we were trying to help the Oregon prospectors�


Which "same group" are you talking about? My contributions to this site have been independent of any group. That said, I am local to two mining entities which to my knowledge and since my participation didn't even know about Colorado Prospectors, let alone tell any one to take a flying leap. In fact, when I started to participate locally the association from which the mining district is born was down to 5 participants. Our participation locally was only because of John urging me to study the mining law to confirm unlawful imposition by agencies against miners. So we're almost outsiders to any group in the regard of your comment.
Early on it was not despite CP but because of the content found on CP I decided to allow my research, findings and writings posted on this site by John under the mineral estate grantee name; A status, more than a name, wholly unknown prior to my findings, that was not discussed or applied. I felt CP readers could benefit because of the good foundation set in the forum which I didn't find elsewhere. I felt comfortable to post here with your encouragement, as well. I was excited to see people with at least an idea of what they were dealing with. So to say I or John told you to jump off a cliff is completely incorrect. Though, I can't speak to something outside of my awareness that may have occurred.


CP “Lately I see they are still following the leadership found here at the Colorado Prospector website and trying to make it appear that they are "leading prospectors" to the right information?!�


Not sure where you get your information. And partly because you haven't identified the "same group" you attack us through. Where referring to us, there is no leadership. We post independent of any association, but in support of apparently valid information. There is a lot that can be said about two entities I associate with, if those are the target of your ire, and how much they have been subverted as they try to bring the mining law back to prominence, that any "leadership", of which we are not apart, is too busy working to fix the harm caused than to come to the CP site professing to be "leading prospectors". The two entities I associate with have two separate purposes. One, SWOMA, is Outreach and Education. And the other, Jefferson Mining District, JMD, is, essentially, a vessel for miners to use to advance the Cause of mineral estate grantees and their livelihood. These are not impositions of leadership or only for prospectors. In fact, I have been a principle contributor to the formation of Jefferson Mining District to advance the congressional mandate of Coordination. I don't know of anyone in those mining entities that have ever referred to CP as a source of authority or knowledge base or hiding the same. Most miners I know simply do not know of the existence of CP; A lot don't even have computers. And without taking away from what I saw in the information the CP site is offering, it has not formed the basis of any action taken by the mining entities I am associated with or helped to create. That said, and to evidence how little CP was known to anyone in those entities, John made a special effort to get the, then webmaster, to provide a link to Colorado Prospectors [link]. And this link survives despite the effort to destroy the website and JMD. This Link was suggested, and ours is only a suggestion not a decision to make about the content provided by the JMD site, because John and I felt that CP was a solid place for miners to get information and because the CP forum was receptive to the law that was being attacked in most other forums. If you notice Jefferson Mining District is strictly an information resource. There is no forum. And therefore there is no communication. In fact, it is a minimal place of interaction though a place for the District to post mining information. The CP link on the JMD website was there because we felt CP was a good site to send miners to supplement the content being created and offered on the JMD site. To my knowledge, nothing I contribute to either the now defunct SWOMA or current JMD site posted originated from CP. None of my research was even inspired by CP. What inspired me was that CP existed to help the miners understand what it is they have and better than any other forum at the time. And this notion that it is a good idea to spread information to other miners is why John posts to the CP forum. If you do not like that, then I wonder who it is actually becoming territorial about information and where ti comes from. CP certainly did not form the basis for my research or any of the things I've produced or use when helping miners in their various impositions of agency or judiciary that we should suffer such an attack or when posting new information from independent sources at the CP forum. I also don't understand how that is leading prospectors anywhere.


CP "Hmmm, odd since that is what this very forum was started for in 2003, for prospectors to gain a new view and find real information about the truth in prospecting/mining laws and agency's delegated authorities as writtien. Here you can form your own opinion and discuss the mining law.......AS IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SINCE 2003!�


I don't think we have ever posted anything to this forum which would stifle the creation of any opinion. As I have said, it is because we felt welcome that we continue to post at all. I'm certain that John didn't figure it would rub anyone the wrong way to post information which could be used to guide ones opinion. Right now there aren't many sources to link in any regard. And I'm curious how you think you could have my Executive Summary regarding jurisdiction responding the local sheriff’s request for such, posted on CP since 2003 when I just created it a couple years ago without any help from CP.


CP “Sure hope the Colorado Prospector website link gets posted as many times at that site as this one gets REPEATEDLY POSTED HERE, I suspect it doesn't .....but we'll just keep piling them up in this thread.....it's so obvious that these attempts are more copy moves from a lead/idea they've gotten from here over the years and still want to take the traffic from us to make their "concept" appear new or that they've been the leader on this front of mining law and education to the people.�


Your site is one of the small handful that is linked to (and has been almost from the creation of the SWOMA/Jefferson site) on its links page: http://www.jeffersonminingdistrict.com/links.html
And maybe because you may have never visited the site, you did not see there is no way to reference CP more than has been done. The JMD site is not a forum. And I believe, where CP had pertinent information John would have linked CP through other forum posts elsewhere.


CP “Doesn't it seem odd to others (especially those who've been here for years) that this group and their spokesperson never interacts with this forum community.........so why do they find it so important to post thier website here so often?!
If in fact this group from Oregon wished to work with everyone then I'd just have to think they'd be more willing to interact with the sites they feel it important to pass messages along to/through!

This has not been the case since late 2010 and this new group began posting/spamming other websites. 3 years later ........ Man this is gettin' old!�


What's getting old CP is that you assume much that isn't. You mention a group without identifying it. You have created spokesperson that doesn't exist. The fact is, if you did mean Jefferson Mining District, "their website" happens to be a repository of mining information. The basis of the district was established from research I have done wholly independent of CP, and anyone or thing else for that matter. We do not own that website. We do not have any direct control on the content of that website. We communicate at CP to pass along the information. Where else would we do that? "This group" is who? I've just explained there are two different entities John and I are associated with that have different purposes. Have you misidentified these mining entities for another?
Have John and I told you to jump off of a cliff?
As to interacting, I have stopped interacting with all forums, in large part. Even after invitation. I do not have the time any longer. If I create some writing that John feels is important he posts that. But I have stopped interacting with the forums because time is not spent as well there than other places. A lot of the information that needs to be said is already posted. And where I have been vilified on some forums or have to contend with people that just won't read and think or maybe are just trolls and plants, I have more important matters to attend to than arguing with people. We have miners that are in serious trouble, beyond what the forums can hope to help. I have chosen to focus on these problems. And only where a technical clarity needs to be made to help miners understand better that will help them avoid a larger harm, I will decide to offer my observation. Otherwise, I have had to focus my time on judicial or agency matters. I'm sorry you need more interaction from me or John to validate our information or post from other sources. We provided the time we could interact, when we could. There just hasn't been the luxury to chat much recently. And it doesn't look like there will be a respite in the near future.
So I don't know where this leaves us. The mining law predates both of us for argument's sake. For my part, I've told John a long while back to stop posting to the forums completely. For my part, and John can decide differently, I have gotten tired of the whining and the lack of active participation in the trenches beyond the forums. But information must be passed on, and that is what John has been doing. With the real damage happening to miners in fact, I can't keep up with the forums to explain. We wish it were different. When the information is available for any one to find and figure out and I get grief, I have no energy to put to that. Especially when I'm using the very information to help miners, others condemn. There is just no time for chit chat, otherwise. I'm glad to hear that some people still do have time, but that is not my reality.
The fact of it is, despite your assumptions, or that we are surprised at your attitude, we held out in our mind that at least there would be two quality sources of information that would not convolute the mining law subject matter, the CP site and JMD. The only instruction from the JMD Assembly to the webmaster was to post as much mining law and related information as possible. The CP site was never referred to as a model. That you see some similarity is coincidence without a meaning, at best. I'd like to think any similarity is consistency with the mining law. No matter who posts information, if it is sourced from the law it will be expressed the same. I only write this much today because we valued your acceptance and the "relationship" of a sort built out of that acceptance of the information John was posting that I, in part, have created independent of any group, to further the mining law being a grant where I was getting flack in most all other places. We didn't get that Flack from SWOMA or JMD either which is where we base our larger efforts to advance the cause of the mineral estate grantee. It is no slight to you or to CP. Not sure why you take it that way.

Oh, and Merry Christmas to you all.
Hal and John, Mineral Estate Grantees.