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Handguns
Dypheron
post Oct 31 2014, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (Crusty @ Oct 31 2014, 11:21 AM) *
From all the reading I've done, a 45 against a bear is a risky compromise if they're coming at you. Even with something like one of the Buffalo Bore rounds. While I'd hope while it might not kill it, the few "punches" to the skull I'd hope to give it would at least dissuade it from continuing to come at me... but hope isn't a good strategy! lol



That's why I said I'd rather trust a magnum. More likely to do enough damage to either stop the animal or turn it around in a hurry. The problem is everyone looks for a one shot drop round, such a thing really doesn't exist. Ever see a deer run for a few miles on pure adrenaline after a perfect lung shot? Happens all the time.

This is all purely academic though, assuming that you both see and are attacked by a bear. I'd be more worried about getting stalked by a mountain lion myself. If you're really that worried about getting eaten by big game carry a 12 gauge loaded with slugs and be done with it. Just keep it in the tent next labor day weekend, I don't want you shooting me when I'm out their scaring the pants off of the 4wheeler mafia while wearing a bigfoot costume. smiley-laughing021.gif


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Dypheron
post Oct 31 2014, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE (Caveman @ Oct 31 2014, 12:42 PM) *
Guys, the bear spray I use is fully documented to stop most charges. There is actually video of it being used to stop an angry, territorial grizzly ba a fisherman in Canada. Stopped it short, and had it rubbing its eyes and whining! A .44 mag punching through the skull on a direct brain shot (all but impossible to do!) is the only thing that would have stopped it quicker. You can actually see the fisherman crapping himself as he sprayed the bear... it wasn't set up, just one of those lucky coincidences when somebody was videoing their friend fishing.... I bought 2 when I went hiking in Glacier NP. These are quick to use, easy to get on target, and is no sh** sherlock effective. Works on black bears too, which is what it was developed for. Range is great, and a very good, effective, long cone pattern. You just have to hit the face, something most people can do w/o thinking due to hand/eye coordination. The guy in the video just swep across the face of the bear, it stopped, and then he really zeroed in and doused it good (at about 6 to ten feet!) Then the guy just stood there untill his friends grappeb him and ushered him away... he looked like he was having a heart attack, though... The bear just sat there on its butt in the water, rubbing its face and sounded just pitiful... sold me. I'd rather use this stuff than a firearm. What they will not tell you is that handguns, while they will kill the bear (eventually), they will not stop the charge, unless you score a perfect hit. A.30-.30 or a 12 guage (with slugs) will. Unless you are willing to carry a .50 with a 4" barrell (very heavy and slow to draw monster handgun), you just don't have the stopping power. Most instances of bear charges are false charges, and the very loud report is what actually drive them off, not the hit - and most poeple can't actually fire acuratelly on a charging bear - they miss by several feet, usually above and behind, and since most bear charges start from 30' or less, you will not get to fire more than once, if at all, and that's if you already have the firearm in hand! The guy in the video was lucky - he saw the bear before it started its charge and had the spray ready when it did - and the water slowed it down. He actually missed the bear when he started spraying, and was able to sweep the spray across it's face - but it had actually closed to the 6-10 feet stated above before it was stopped. If he had been using a handgun, he would have been done before the second shot. Just my 2 cents....



Just make sure you have a long blonde mullet, wear rediculous clothing, and call everyone "brah" when carrying the bear spray.


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Crusty
post Oct 31 2014, 02:47 PM
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Good discussion. Are the chances of any of this happening great, no (except for Brandon and the bigfoot costume). If it does, chances are it ain't gonna work out well. I'm more likely to have a sidearm on my hip than a can of bear spray, given the chances of something other than a bear being the issue are more likely. So this really is a discussion about slim possibilities... slim chance I'm going to get charged by a bear, slim chance I'm going to be able to react in time, and if I do, slim chance I'm gonna dissuade him from turning my in to a steaming pile of bear doo doo in the woods somewhere. But I'd like to think I'd at least get a shot or two off and hope it is good enough or that while he's got me bent over doing his bear business to me, maybe I can get one last shot in and survive only missing a limb or two lol


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MikeS
post Oct 31 2014, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (Dypheron @ Oct 31 2014, 01:03 PM) *
Ever see a deer run for a few miles on pure adrenaline after a perfect lung shot? Happens all the time.

My first Elk took 4 rifle rounds(30-O6), 3 in the vitals, 1 in the neck and still didn't go down. I was caught unprepared and forgot my back up ammo on the horse. Took me a few min. to run through the snow. She did drop to the ground before I had another round loaded. She was the old cow trailing at the end of the herd. A tough old girl.


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swizz
post Nov 1 2014, 07:02 AM
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I carry Glock Model 23, .40 cal but don't have any high expectations of stopping big game with it. More for immediate threats of a smaller nature, scaring off big game from the sound,... or to defend myself from humans. By "threats of a smaller nature" I'm referring to possible odd incidents that might involve smaller animals that are rabid or may need to be put out of their misery from injuries.
I believe that once you are in your tent and sleeping gear.... you are completely vulnerable, weapon or not. A large animal will not enter the tent through the door. It will collapse the tent upon you in a fury... rendering you a burrito. You will not be able to reach for anything as it occurs in a matter of seconds and the victim is normally asleep at the point of attack. Attacks on tents are rare but that's typically how it goes down.
I have read in various articles......
Bear Spray: Effective primarily on Grizz, not so much for Black Bear but can work
Air Horn: Better than spray for Black Bear


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Caveman
post Nov 1 2014, 09:49 PM
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Chris, I totally agree!

Grizzlies are territorial, and make lots of bluff charges.... probably due to their size, the energy expended in a fight, and the amount of damage they can do to each other. This is why pepper spray works so well on them. Black bears are an entirely different story - when they are really charging you, they mean to kill you. NO MATTER WHAT. Whether it is to eat you, because you got between mama bear and her cub, between it and its kill, or just because you pissed it off somehow. Handgun rounds, magnum or no, just will not stop them - unless you score a very hard disabling shot right off the bat, (that slows it down... a little) then follow it up with another or three hard hits... and that's on their bluffs - on a real charge, well, you just have to get lucky. They have been known to continue the charge and maul, even after multiple, very hard hits. However, bear spray will slow them down considerably - if you get the eyes, nose, and mouth when they are far enough away (they have great follow through and will hit you even when blinded, unless you think to move laterally, which most people will not). So, sorry... the pepper spray gives you more of an edge than a handgun will, particulary since you can see the spray stream and bring it on target. So, Brandon, I WILL wear that mullet, and proudly, too, brah. biggrin.gif Not trying to call you out - just being real.

Short barreled !2 guages loaded with magnum powered slugs are the recommended and preferred way to go in bear country. In Canada, for campers, hikers and fishermen - your only option is bear spray, no mullet required.


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Coalbunny
post Nov 2 2014, 03:25 AM
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QUOTE (Caveman @ Nov 1 2014, 09:49 PM) *
Chris, I totally agree!

Grizzlies are territorial, and make lots of bluff charges.... probably due to their size, the energy expended in a fight, and the amount of damage they can do to each other. This is why pepper spray works so well on them. Black bears are an entirely different story - when they are really charging you, they mean to kill you. NO MATTER WHAT. Whether it is to eat you, because you got between mama bear and her cub, between it and its kill, or just because you pissed it off somehow. Handgun rounds, magnum or no, just will not stop them - unless you score a very hard disabling shot right off the bat, (that slows it down... a little) then follow it up with another or three hard hits... and that's on their bluffs - on a real charge, well, you just have to get lucky. They have been known to continue the charge and maul, even after multiple, very hard hits. However, bear spray will slow them down considerably - if you get the eyes, nose, and mouth when they are far enough away (they have great follow through and will hit you even when blinded, unless you think to move laterally, which most people will not). So, sorry... the pepper spray gives you more of an edge than a handgun will, particulary since you can see the spray stream and bring it on target. So, Brandon, I WILL wear that mullet, and proudly, too, brah. biggrin.gif Not trying to call you out - just being real.

Short barreled !2 guages loaded with magnum powered slugs are the recommended and preferred way to go in bear country. In Canada, for campers, hikers and fishermen - your only option is bear spray, no mullet required.

What brand of bear spray do you use?


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Caveman
post Nov 3 2014, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (Coalbunny @ Nov 2 2014, 02:25 AM) *
What brand of bear spray do you use?



I will have to dig into my hunting/camping containers and look.... I'll have it later today.


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swizz
post Nov 3 2014, 05:13 PM
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I'm gonna try to get an 870 Express Tactical by spring (12 ga). I'd feel better with that slinged to my back when I'm up at the claims alone.
That Bear in my avatar was staring, calculating, and making decisions as I took that pic... you can see it in his face. I didn't even have my handgun that day, he scared off easy enough just yelling at him. Had he made other decisions I'd have been wishing for a 12 ga.


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Caveman
post Nov 3 2014, 05:35 PM
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Aw, Swizz - he was just looking for a little buddy! laugh.gif


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swizz
post Nov 3 2014, 05:42 PM
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We would have made great pals! crutches.gif


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MikeS
post Nov 3 2014, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE (swizz @ Nov 3 2014, 04:13 PM) *
I'm gonna try to get an 870 Express Tactical by spring (12 ga).

That sounds like it would be the thing for close range bear defense. I have bear and mountain lion around my claim.


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MikeS
post Nov 3 2014, 08:51 PM
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The bears love the raspberries more than I do.


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Caveman
post Nov 4 2014, 08:52 AM
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Seriously - a 12g with an 18" barrel and a pistol grip is a great thing for a miner in bear country - IF you can get it deployed.... which most of the time, you can. When a black bear gets interested in you, it normally makes its presence known, somehow, so you do get the oppertunity to get your weapon in hand - most of the time, it's just curious. It's those other times - especially when they start working their way closer.... and a first shot into the ground can usually dissuade them.
They really don't like loud noises - a canned air horn can actually be your best friend. Works well on hill kitties, too!


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swizz
post Nov 4 2014, 10:15 AM
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I don't want the pistol grip, full stock for me on that one.


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